Algae issues? Why dont more people use algae scrubbers?

[VintageReefer]

The type of algae in a scrubber typically is turf or slime algae, it will grow naturally in the scrubber but not typically in a display

It does affect tank algae because this type of algae is more efficiently growing and is highly effective at pulling nutrients from water and growing at a high rate of speed.

All algae in the water will battle for the available nutrients, the idea is make the scrubber conditions so favorable that it’s grabbing them all up.

I had a scrubber and basketball of chaeto, and a tank full of hair algae. the scrubber algae outcompeted both and starved them out.

 

[Troylee]

I would say we are both successful with minimum time/involvement in our methods.

That’s the great thing about this hobby - multiple methods out there for people to use. I like the scrubber, it’s eliminated my noisy skimmer, which in turn eliminated emptying the collection cup, which also decreased my need to top off, all saving me time and money. It’s also eliminated water changes, saving more time and money. Have you seen the price of salt these days?!?!

I love skimmers and run a over sized one for aeration if nothing else lol.. “higher ph” I did the no water change years ago and had success with dosing vodka and mb7… my current tank I tried the no water changes cause my no3 and po4 are stable and noticed my corals were surviving but not thriving like I’m used too! I started changing 100 gallons of water every other week and they exploded with growth! I’m very aware of salt prices haha! That tells me I’m missing elements and instead of buying tons of little blue bottles and sending icp off every other month it’s cheaper and easier to change my water sooooo that’s what I do! lol

 

[Troylee]

I bought a bucket of reef crystals in 2017 for 50$. It’s almost double now!

I load up when they’re on sale.. my last batch cost me $23 a bucket a couple months ago on petco with autoship.. it is like $90 a bucket now.. I’ll switch to regular io since I don’t really notice a difference and it’s only $60 for 200 gallons

 

[VintageReefer]

I load up when they’re on sale.. my last batch cost me $23 a bucket a couple months ago on petco with autoship.. it is like $90 a bucket now.. I’ll switch to regular io since I don’t really notice a difference and it’s only $60 for 200 gallons

I checked today, on sale for 66 at Petco!

 

[ScubaSkeets]

The type of algae in a scrubber typically is turf or slime algae, it will grow naturally in the scrubber but not typically in a display

It does affect tank algae because this type of algae is more efficiently growing and is highly effective at pulling nutrients from water and growing at a high rate of speed.

Yes, but why? Why does turf/slime algae typically grow in the scrubber and not in the DT, other than having the benefit of more intense lightning? When I wasn't using my "algae reducer", there was no benefit of more intense lighting anywhere so why not have turf/slime algae in the DT?

 

[VintageReefer]

Yes, but why? Why does turf/slime algae typically grow in the scrubber and not in the DT, other than having the benefit of more intense lightning? When I wasn't using my "algae reducer", there was no benefit of more intense lighting anywhere so why not have turf/slime algae in the DT?

You got me! I have read the explanation for this before but don’t remember off hand. Something about it grows from a cellular level inside the scrubber, first developing slime algae, then you clean that off, and then it develops into turf algae

Like in these pics - each approx 2 weeks apart. First I got brown dusting, then it turns into slime algae (don’t have pic) then turf algae starts to grow. I did get a small amount of hair algae in the scrubber at the beginning but the turf outcompeted it

Eventually it all converted to turf algae and has been growing turf algae for years, examples are in the last two pics with my hand. The entire process start to finish took about 5-6 weeks for me.

The lighter pic indicates I needed less lighting, the last pic is ideal. Dark dark algae indicates you can have more lighting

 

[ScubaSkeets]

You got me! I have read the explanation for this before but don’t remember off hand. Something about it grows from a cellular level inside the scrubber, first developing slime algae, then you clean that off, and then it develops into turf algae

Like in these pics - each approx 2 weeks apart. First I got brown dusting, then it turns into slime algae (don’t have pic) then turf algae starts to grow. I did get a small amount of hair algae in the scrubber at the beginning but the turf outcompeted it

Eventually it all converted to turf algae and has been growing turf algae for years, examples are in the last two pics with my hand. The entire process start to finish took about 5-6 weeks for me.

The lighter pic indicates I needed less lighting, the last pic is ideal. Dark dark algae indicates you can have more lighting

Thanks.. those first few pics are why I am going to have nightmares tonight. Creeping me out!!! Ha ha!!!

 

[VintageReefer]

Thanks.. those first few pics are why I am going to have nightmares tonight. Creeping me out!!! Ha ha!!!

In case you need more nightmare fuel !

 

[Mikeltee]

I'll have some empirical evidence in the next few months. My tank is sterile. The rocks are phosphate locked measuring roughly 1.5ppm. Nitrates measured 12 last night. They were 60 a couple of weeks ago. I'm wet skimming and emptying my cup every few days. It doesn't help the Phosphates though. My lights have been on for a week. I'm destined for a rough battle with algae. I'm 500 par at the top of the rocks. White is limited in my schedule. The light schedule is Pennywise Daylight Pop running 2x Hydra 26s and 1x Hydra 52 over a 48" tank. I start an ATS tomorrow, and after it starts working well, the skimmer is coming offline. I do not dose anything but pods and phyto (2ml/g daily) nor use GFO. I do have some herbivores and a small batch of CUC. I culture 3 strains of pods though so I assume that will play heavily in the algae growth in the display.

 

[Mikeltee]

Yeah, I was surprised to read that part. But I guess people have been doing crazy stuff like actually bake "cook" their rocks too.

I don't know what the rip clean method is. Is power washing or scrubbing out of the tank a part of that?

I had a really bad run of GHA and bryopsis very early on. I did some hand pulling but I never ever considered pulling the rocks out. I've had stuff since then come and go but it was self driven for fun.

Rip Clean is pulling all your sand, rinsing it clean under tap and then rodi. This is easier said than done. I cheaped out on my rebuild and washed 100# of sand. I bet I spent 16 hours on it. Had I know I would have coughed up the $100.

 

[ScubaSkeets]

The rocks are phosphate locked

I've read @VintageReefer mention this several times.
What does that mean and how do you know if the rocks are phosphate locked?

 

[Garf]

I do have some herbivores and a small batch of CUC

You are giving the bristletooth an algae of some type though I assume, until the tank greens up a little? They are fabulous little in tank algae scrapers.
That’s really bright for a bare rock tank, lol. Is it old washed liverock? From a previous tank?

 

[VintageReefer]

I've read @VintageReefer mention this several times.
What does that mean and how do you know if the rocks are phosphate locked?

This is a good write up

Phosphate flow out of rocks

Many people, when they get use algae scrubbers for the first time, get worried when more (not less) algae starts to grow on their rocks. It seems really strange, especially when nitrate and phosphate have gone lower than before. What is happening is that phosphate is coming out of the rocks...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[Garf]

This is a good write up

Phosphate flow out of rocks

Many people, when they get use algae scrubbers for the first time, get worried when more (not less) algae starts to grow on their rocks. It seems really strange, especially when nitrate and phosphate have gone lower than before. What is happening is that phosphate is coming out of the rocks...

www.reef2reef.com

Here’s a more plausible version;(except the last half sentence anyway).

 

[VintageReefer]

I don’t see how it’s relevant to the question regarding what is meant by phosphate bound rock. The rocks have absorbed and are retaining phosphate. as you strip it from the water, they start to leach out. Your phosphate tests are irrelevant because they measure what’s in the water column, not in the rock. The rock grows hair algae as phosphates leach out. It’s a process, can take months depending on how bad the rock is, but eventually it will all leach out and the algae issues will be resolved, or significantly reduced

This would happen regardless of the method of phosphate control/management. This thread is about scrubbers which can fix this, but there certainly are other methods as well that can help with this process

 

[Garf]

I don’t see how it’s relevant to the question regarding what is meant by phosphate bound rock. The rocks have absorbed and are retaining phosphate. as you strip it from the water, they start to leach out. Your phosphate tests are irrelevant because they measure what’s in the water column, not in the rock. The rock grows hair algae as phosphates leach out. It’s a process, can take months depending on how bad the rock is, but eventually it will all leach out and the algae issues will be resolved, or significantly reduced

This would happen regardless of the method of phosphate control/management. This thread is about scrubbers which can fix this, but there certainly are other methods as well that can help with this process

I’m aware of phosphate binding to calcium carbonate surfaces, yes. I use the principle to keep my phosphates in a very comfortable range (for me).

I should have perhaps clarified the part in contention;

So, since the surface of the rocks is rough and has light, it starts growing MORE algae there (not less) as the phosphate comes out of the rocks

 

[VintageReefer]

Ok I can agree to that

Adding to the conversation, I would say this is a slow leaching process rather than a fast one, and low p has increased algae growth. So as p comes out of the rock, slowly, it is exposed to light, it has a rough surface, and then hair algae grows. It is then killed off, more leaches out, the process repeats in a loop until there no longer is phosphate stored in the rock. This can take weeks to months or up to a year depending on how bad the rock is and how aggressive one is removing phosphates

 

[TommyH70]

This is DIY "algae reducer":

This is the screen from today that I'm about to harvest:

This is my tank how I normally view it:

And to be fully transparent, here is the tank with 100%white/0%blues as requested by another member:

Ugly I know. As you can see the rocks still appear to have algae on them, so my tank is certainly not "alage free" like I stated to begin with.
However, what the DT is free of is the long hair algae and tufts of moss that over ran my tank several times before.

Maybe you can help me identify the (algae) growth growing on top of my coraline..‍ BTW. Your tank looks great!

 

[jason2459]

Maybe you can help me identify the (algae) growth growing on top of my coraline..‍ BTW. Your tank looks great!

I see maybe bubbles? I would guess dinos and cyano if so. A microscope would help.

 

[BeanAnimal]

My new 150EXT skimmer arrived broken today so I sent it back to BRS. I have had a string of bad luck from BRS lately as the Bullet 3 HOB skimmer that I purchased 2 weeks ago was also broken! Credit to BRS for harvesting the part off another skimmer and next daying it. They probably would have done the same this time, but I had a change of heart because of comms with Santa Monica.

Anyways, I am taking a huge leap of faith here and plan to run skimmerless. I just don't have room in my sump for both the surf and a skimmer. I'm concerned about gas exchange and the benefits of a CO2 scrubber on my skimmer intake.

Does the upflow design of the Surf running with a Tetra AP 300 increase gas exchange or should I add a bubbler to my sump? Will the algae growth consume enough CO2 to be equivalent to the effects of my CO2 scrubber on a smaller 6" skimmer? I'd estimate that I get about +.2 on my pH running the CO2 scrubber.

I have the RO 150EXT and it is by far the easiest to dial in and stable skimmer I have ever laid my hands on.