All zoa tank what lights to use???

[nature786]

@grandis - I never heard anyone explain it like that. Makes me sad that I spent $700 on LEDs when I could have just replaced my bulbs on the halides and been done.
Thanks for sharing your knowledge.

 

[bigfoot86]

Wow, I had T5's before and liked them a lot. But have to be honest, I now own leds and will never go back. Not saying that t5's or MH aren't the best, but not the best for my tank. Definitely have a lot more response and growth with my leds. Now I only run my leds at about 80% and in the time I've owned them they've outperformed my t5's hands down. I know people are in a hurry to put down leds, but do your research and play around with your light intensity before you discard their performance. There's factors like the height of the led fixture and the intensity it runs that will cure some of the problems that you may have. No time and money lost here!!! Only thing I have to worry about is when it's time to frag my corals, their growing too fast under my razors, LOL. Actually thought about goin back to T5's to slow it down a bit, haha.

 

[MadCityReefer]

T5 + a reefbrite strip (for the pop)

Exactly what I have and it works perfect!!!

 

[A. grandis]

Most of the time that LEDs are thought to be "better" (zoas and/or corals growing more, etc…) than T5s or MHs happens because that first impression, when adaptation is done correctly and bleaching doesn't happen...
The organisms (cnidarians) tend to drive some boosted energy into adaptation. Another way to see that is a fast reproduction of polyps. With zoas that happen often when we collect them from the wild, specially. In the long run we normally see a decline of that energy used into the reproduction/ growth. That is when the organisms' metabolism is looking for a stable environment to grow and reproduce in normal/natural rates, not in "survival mode". So the fake "better growth effect" of simply changing the light source could be responsible for such event.
When people place a new LED system for their zoas, that could happen. But when the time reaches the next point, people look back on their pictures and see that those polyps were actually healthier under their halides and T5s. Why? Just because there is no comparison of the light properties (LEDS vs. MHs and/or T5s). The incandescent properties of the MH and T5s are something the LEDs don't have, and that's one of the reasons they cost more to run than the LEDs (electricity and usage). Some of the signs are: color change, lack of pigments and growth patterns, taking consideration of light alone. There is no way to cover the facts. Zoanthids, as well as and hermatypic corals, will need a font of energy similar to sunlight for an optimal long term survival IMO in order to live well, like in the ocean. Light isn't only about PAR and spectrum. The polyps are normally great in adaptation and will fight for life, trying to absorb the light available.

Question to you all is: Does the LEDs are really better than MHs and T5s to the organisms?

Remember the sun!?!? Do not think about your electricity bill, please. Forget the less heat, the "evolution of the hobby" and "technology arriving". If you want to "feel good" about the beauty of a light system hanging over your display tank, think of those ATI dimmable fixtures, when comparing to your new LED system with the computer features and so on… Try to picture yourself as a zoa colony and tell yourself what would you think that would fit better for your metabolism. That's how Zoas look into the equation! You don't need to publish your answer, but keep thinking about that when observing your polyps. Hopefully you will remember that when down the road you see them weaker and not knowing why, once "all the params are OK".

As we know, the chemistry of our systems are a great deal in zoas/coral health. Light alone doesn't do the trick!! But when chemistry is well, light adaptation is also helped, and we could have that as a sort of backup for the adaptation. In the long run, with the lack of correct light properties, chemistry won't be able to keep up with the best for the organisms dependent on light. They might survive, but without the very best we can offer, closer to their natural needs (sun), they won't function properly, be healthy, reproduce or show their very best for a long period of time. And then people turn back to their T5s...

Also, make sure you know that the sellers do need to make profit in order to stay in business. The last technology is something really easy to feel special about, specially when it is well wrapped and with a great graphic poster along with the nice instruction manual. Lots of money are invested into their business and they are actually doing really well selling the LEDs systems. We must admit that there is a huge hype around the aquarium market today though. I'm sorry!
I do believe all that is needed to reach what we would love to reach: a great LED system better than MHs and T5s!!!! So that's what I'm waiting for. Hope we'll get that one day!!! But the fixtures will need to use more electricity to drive some heat, I would think. In that case, would T5 be a better choice, once it's more uniform? Hummm...
The other thing is that zoa/coral dealers will use their LEDs on their systems to help with electricity costs for one. Two, they may also want to participate on the selling of the LED fixtures as well. It's business, right?? That's the way it goes...
Nothing wrong with all that... That's the way it goes. Just like the cartoon names.

I do not sell anything. Just a hobbyist, but I like to expose my thoughts. Most people don't.

This is not any type of campaign agains LEDs, but the fact of many testimonies in the past and people going crazy asking me questions of why their zoas are dying??? I've heard a lot of this during the last past years. And they switch back to their T5s and magic happens?? Humm...
Many other good aquarists would agree with me too, but they wouldn't like to be exposed. There is lots of money involved in the LED business today and we aren't here to burn anyone's image.

I still prefer to offer T5s to my zoas. Just my own thing. I do believe they make a difference and will continue to use them until I see some LEDs that would offer better results them MHs or T5s. I would love to pay a little less for electricity, yes.

This is just my thinking. Again, not against anyone in particular.
Keep zoning and please post your opinions and experiences here to enrich this thread...

I'm really busy, but will do my very best to try to read...
:nerd:

Grandis.

 

[A. grandis]

@grandis - I never heard anyone explain it like that. Makes me sad that I spent $700 on LEDs when I could have just replaced my bulbs on the halides and been done.
Thanks for sharing your knowledge.

This is not the first time I've heard that!
I'm sorry.
I do not want anyone to feel bad about their purchases. I guess I just can't help.
I'm trying to expose my ideas for people to understand my point of view and decide the best for their systems, specially if they are deciding what lights to buy now for their reef tanks.
I'm glad many other are beginning to talk better about their T5 fixtures.

Grandis.

 

[A. grandis]

Exactly what I have and it works perfect!!!

The new T5 fixtures with LEDs (talking about the ATI) are great.
Yes, they still do their amazing job and have that touch of LEDs for the famous "pop".
I like my all T5 ATI dimmable fixture a lot. I have those old PMs from ATI also. Great fixtures!!

Grandis.

 

[joshporksandwich]

The new T5 fixtures with LEDs (talking about the ATI) are great.
Yes, they still do their amazing job and have that touch of LEDs for the famous "pop".
I like my all T5 ATI dimmable fixture a lot. I have those old PMs from ATI also. Great fixtures!!

Grandis.

You're amazing! Great explanation. I switched from MH/VHO hamilton to 3 apollo6 leds and I regret it. Now on my new tank I want a t5 led combo. I changed because my frag tank would do amazing with the same apollo6 lights but I did not take into consideration that all frags in the frag tank are at the same height and the par is controlled by moving it to the side. When in my tank is a lot harder to control.

With all that said I know a lot of people with led only tanks and they do amazing but very few did a switch, they all started with leds. Cornbred which has all kind of corals has been using on his frag tanks all leds for 4-5 years and all his stuff is amazing but he also has a t5 tank where he puts all his fresh cuts before moving to led tanks.

After your explanation I'm thinking of going with 2 MH pendant a few t5 retro and reefbrites for pop lol.

 

[benny z]

i still think t5 + reefbrites is a fantastic look, and probably one of the best combinations for overall coral health/color.

unfortunately my current dispaly is only 18" either direction, so t5 was out for me on this tank being that the shortest tubes are 24". it's in my family room and the light has to be contained to the tank. so leds it is.

but i wouldn't say i hate the leds, by any means - and things do look great and are growing.

 

[PRomero]

Currently on T5's + 1 reefbrite xho blue led and love it but still want more "pop". My ideal light fixture would consist of 4-blue led strips with 1 or 2 6500k t5s and 2 ati coral+ bulbs, all dimmable and have the 6500k's only on for 3-4hrs, coral+ for 6-8hrs and blue led's for 12hrs.

In my opinion, white led's are the downfall with all LED setups, so I'm planning on making my own t5/led fixture real soon.

 

[bigfoot86]

Well for me TIME and OBSERVATION are the only true test. I have given my livestock almost a year and a half under LEDs, and I can honestly say the response was not shortlived for me. I guess my corals forgot their 'not supposed to be' thriving under LEDs after so long, lol. I see the point that you are trying to make A.grandis, BUT remember that's why these led fixtures out there today are programmable, UNLIKE t5's and MH. I wish I could support your theory with some cold hard evidence, but I can't. I guess I'll have a talk with my livestock and tell them to stop proving people wrong, LOL.

Happy Reefing!

 

[brandon85]

T5s.....

 

[brandon85]

T5s.....

I can out grow any of my locals that use leds

 

[bigfoot86]

Everyone is different. That's just how it is.

 

[benny z]

I can out grow any of my locals that use leds

General husbandry could be as big, or bigger, of a contributor.

Just sayin'.

 

[bigfoot86]

So true, benny z, couldn't agree with you more.

 

[A. grandis]

Well, so all those people that went back to their MHs and T5 fixtures, from their LEDs, were actually having problems with their "husbandry", right?
The funny thing is that when they got those old fixtures running over their tanks the husbandry issue went down the drain. LOL!!
:tongue:

Grandis.

 

[benny z]

Early adopters, yep. When spectrum and intensity control were either non-existent or misunderstood? It's easy to give up when things don't respond the way you expect, and immediately go back to "what worked".

 

[benny z]

I want to add that I really don't have an opinion either way. They all work for me. I stated a few posts back that t5 + led is my favorite.

 

[bigfoot86]

Wow, can't believe some people get so angry just because some people actually do have terrific success with leds. That's too funny. I love it. AGAIN that's why a lot of the led fixtures can be programmed (i.e. being able to dim the lights). People just assume they can throw they fixture up there, turn it to 100% and magic is goin to happen. No, not that easy unlike t5 and MH. I'll admit I played around with the height of the fixture and the intensity levels, but once I gave it time, I found it gave me the best of both worlds, tremendous coral response with growth and colors that pop. If you don't want to spend a little time experimenting with them, then don't buy them. That simple. And like I said before, T5's and MH are awesome too, obviously. They have proven to be effective for a long time. But for me I think my t5 days are gone.

 

[A. grandis]

Early adopters, yep. When spectrum and intensity control were either non-existent or misunderstood? It's easy to give up when things don't respond the way you expect, and immediately go back to "what worked".

Yeah, I believe that could be part of the problem.
But today we still see people going back to their old fixtures and regretting their LEDs, like Josh.
It could be that there is even more things LEDs aren't quite offering, besides heat.

Grandis.