All zoa tank what lights to use???

[A. grandis]

I want to add that I really don't have an opinion either way. They all work for me. I stated a few posts back that t5 + led is my favorite.

I know. It's all cool.
I'm not really against LEDs. I'm just exposing the facts about them.
The testimonies of people all over the world are sometimes ignored...
Every one has the right to choose/like what they want.
Nothing wrong with that. :thumb:

Grandis.

 

[A. grandis]

Wow, can't believe some people get so angry just because some people actually do have terrific success with leds. That's too funny. I love it. AGAIN that's why a lot of the led fixtures can be programmed (i.e. being able to dim the lights). People just assume they can throw they fixture up there, turn it to 100% and magic is goin to happen. No, not that easy unlike t5 and MH. I'll admit I played around with the height of the fixture and the intensity levels, but once I gave it time, I found it gave me the best of both worlds, tremendous coral response with growth and colors that pop. If you don't want to spend a little time experimenting with them, then don't buy them. That simple. And like I said before, T5's and MH are awesome too, obviously. They have proven to be effective for a long time. But for me I think my t5 days are gone.

I don't think any of us are angry. There is no reason for that at all.
I'm glad you like your LEDs. Hope that works in the long run for you.
It's just not the case for many others.
Like I've said before, many good aquarists had trouble with LEDs in the long run.
The reason they got their MHs and T5s back wasn't because of any ignorance of intensity/spectrum levels.

Is Dr. Sanjay around? Would be great to hear his opinion on the subject.

Grandis.

 

[kb1094]

LEDs will be my personal recommendation. You get amazing colors from it. I agree that they are still updating such type of light. However, if you look at ecotech radion, they are amazing lights, the G3 now have the spectrum of what the Radion pro 1 had. Me, myself as a owner I can say they are great lights.

 

[benny z]

Is Dr. Sanjay around? Would be great to hear his opinion on the subject.

Last I heard (recently), he's moving to the new Radions.

 

[joshporksandwich]

In my experience having stable parameters is the #1 prority to growth and look of corals. I've visited hundreds of places and have seen amazing growth with all lights including power compacts. With metal halides I usually see bigger polyps, with T5 better color and faster growth, with LEDs i've seen everything but of course the majority of people had LEDs. I had my main Tank with halides and my growth was horrible but zoas were huge. In my frag tank that was connected to my main tank the zoas were not as big but my growth was amazing and 2 years after it still is, but my main tank when I did the switch It didn't matter how good I acclimated everything I still had loss. It took 1 year and everything finally started going back to the way it used to be with halides but it took a lot of testing of different times and height to put the blues and the whites to make the corals look the way they did. I think Halides and T5 is an easier source for corals to get acclimated to. With LEDs you have to tinker to get the same result and based on what A.Grandis wrote I understand why now.

 

[joshporksandwich]

T5s.....

Siiicckkkkkk!!!!!!

 

[bigfoot86]

Thats the thing, I AM already in the 'long run' with the leds. 23 months of testing and observation with leds.....yea, I think that's a pretty good time frame. Maybe you just know a lot of people that didn't have success with them, maybe those people just like to plug it and forget, I don't know. I don't have answers for them, maybe they just didn't feel like putting the time in and playing around with them...that's why I said if you don't want to put a little time and effort in, then stick with t5 or MH. Not sure what your saying about the 'heat' thing. Obviously I'm only getting praise from my livestock and that's what matters. Just like the old saying goes "numbers don't lie", well in this case, "growth, prosperity and longevity" don't lie my friend. I'm sorry, don't know what else to say.

 

[turbo21]

3 years of Cheap bridgelux led from aqua style online and my zoas continue to grow like crazy

I added t-5 supplements about 8 months ago because I wasn't seeing the coloration in my sps I wanted

Haven't noticed a difference in zoa growth or coloration since the added supplements but my sps definitely benefited from a more total spectrum
Because my LEDs are just royal blue and white(pretty much all that was callable at the time
And this discussion isn't any good without pics right

 

[benny z]

you also have to remember that, as with most anything else on the internet, people are quick to complain and share bad experiences loudly. it's less common when someone has success, that they report it.

think about how many consumer electronics you have in your household. if they're working, are you telling anyone how great they all are?

 

[bigfoot86]

Bingo, right on Benny. So true...see it all the time.

 

[turbo21]

you also have to remember that, as with most anything else on the internet, people are quick to complain and share bad experiences loudly. it's less common when someone has success, that they report it.

think about how many consumer electronics you have in your household. if they're working, are you telling anyone how great they all are?

Benny
I totally agree

From what I see most of the people who run LEDs and complain have them less than 6 months. How many of them would have had problems regardless of the lights on the tank

And most people think more is better so let's run 100 5w Crees over a 40 breeder and when everything starts to die they blame it on the lights not understanding the intensity of LEDs

My lfs Aquaworld (who use to be a sponsor here) has been running reef tech LEDs on their tanks for years great growth and coloration on everything

We are way past the point of proving LEDs can grow corals long term and have now seen the tweaking of the spectrums to make them even better

 

[bigfoot86]

Amen to that!

 

[Steveowhits]

My 2 cents,
The LED evolution has come a long way. For the first few years it was just white and blue... Then it was dimmable; thank God... Now with the addition of multiple shades of white, multiple shades of blue, Reds, Yellows, greens, plus true UV things have improved. Some of the improvements are just marketing but Im happy to see that companies are tinkering. Is it worth buying into yet? (rhetorical)

I own the overpriced Orphek PR156xp plus UV, which has been okay..... It became an excellent tool after I surrounded it with T5. ATI and a few other companies have seen the benefit of this combo. If you don't like your LED for some reason try sticking a cheap T5 next to it.

 

[brandon85]

Im not downing any lights, I have grown corals under everything... I just love T5s. Water quality is Key, no questions their. I think most peeps just over do the led thing, most don't understand the intensity of those lil lasers and kill or cause zoas not to grow at their full potential.

 

[bigfoot86]

Stability and water quality, no matter what, are always a must. If you don't have that, then your lights should be the last thing you're worried about anyways.

 

[mattyp]

T5 + a reefbrite strip (for the pop)

What T5 fixture do you use? I'm about to make a purchase and my tank will be Zoa and Ric only.

 

[kwolfskill]

I agree with the folks who say that LEDs are still evolving. Compared to incandescent and T5 florescent, LEDs are in their infancy. As the US phases out more and more incandescent light types, the specialty types like MH will likely get more expensive. As we start moving away from florescent with its mercury, the same will happen with T5s. The only way that these phase outs can happen is if the LED (or some newer) technology continues to evolve and get better. LEDs may not be perfect yet, but they have come a long way from where they were just a very few years ago.

I ran T5's on my 75 gal. tanks and loved them at the time. Now that those tanks are gone and I have two nanos, I'm running dimmable LEDs.

The two things I love about LEDs are that I have full control of the color spectrum at each light point in the fixture. I have a wide variety of colors I can choose from at each position. With MH or T5 it is all or nothing in each bulb.

The other thing I like is the cost. It was expensive to get started with LEDs, but will pay for themselves over their life compared to replacing MH or T5 bulbs (not counting the electricity and cooling savings). At the moment, each of my 24 LEDs costs about $5, and should give me a minimum of 5 years of life. When I need to replace them, I imagine they will be more like $1 each or probably less, and give me another 5 years of life. If my corals like them, (tanks aren't mature enough yet to voice an opinion on this), why would I not run LEDs?

It will be interesting to see where the lighting industry is in 5 years. We may have some new technology at that point which will be the next big thing.

 

[kb1094]

Good thing with Radions LEDs is you can control the intensity, spectrum. You also can acclimate the corals to LEDs in a period of 1-4 weeks. Radions have the ability of a mode called acclimation, you can set up the light to the lowest intensity you want and by a period of "x" weeks (1-4 weeks, depends on what you chosen) they increase to the max intensity which can be programmed. Most people have them running at 70-80% max. Radions are 130w fixture.

 

[Wildexpressions]

DOH! I got all excited when this thread appeared in my Facebook feed. Based on the topic, I had hoped it would be thread on spectral balance, intensity, PUR/PAR, on/off cycle and timing, effects of lights balance on various color morphs, etc. I guess, when I reread the topic, the thread probably does meet the intended goal of the OP.

I have to get to work but I'll take a moment to flap my lips on the topic of what is, IMO, the fundamental flaw in most of these conversations.

Regardless of what personal logic one utilizes, the bottom line, is we are discussing photon engines. The frequency, volume and overall spectral balance of the photon stream changes, but a photon is a photon regardless of the source. Nothing anyone posts, regardless of how many paragraphs it takes or the elegance of the prose it is coached in, changes that.

If you want to figure out lighting than IMO you need always remember that. Do not allow yourself to get sidetracked by threads filled with opinions and personal stories. While your degree of success or failure maybe altered by opinion and personal stories science is not.

Hence the choice of light engine is likely the least significant issue as long as the engine(s) utilized can produce light with the correct balance of spectrum at the right intensity at the required water depth and it is timed appropriately. From that point forward the discussion would deal more with fine tuning the implementation of those light engine(s) to maximize results.

It was no surprise to most experienced reefers that early adopters of LED's were disappointed. Most early LED's were inadequate in most areas and that should not be a surprise as the chips used were simply re-purposed from other fields. Almost all of those first LED's were some approximation of the actinic spectrum combined with 10,000 kelvin chips. I know from first hand experience that many of those strips, even some of the biggest and most successful, were re-purposed architectural landscaping up-lights that were repackaged. Those first LED's, and by first I mean the first 5 years, were largely only useful as supplemental light.

There is absolutely no question that there are numerous models of modern LED's that are capable of very successfully supporting any light dependent organism that we are aware of. Unfortunately price is still the gatekeeper, but that is changing. Currently, most LED fixtures that most of us consider to be affordable are generally best used as supplemental lighting.

I currently use a combination of LED's and T5/T8's in my Zoa grow out tanks. The two biggest mistakes I see in most peoples zoa tank is the light intensity being far to high and failing to understand that zoas/palys vary a lot from one species to the next in their requirements.

Just a note in closing.
I've bought entire collections, on numerous occasions, because they were failing and the collector wanted to recoup some of their investment. The only thing wrong with their setup was too much light. The last one was a multi $1000 dollar fully computerized setup devoted to collectible zoa/palys. It had a 48 inch 8 bulb ATI T5HO fixture populated with ATI and Geismann bulbs hanging 24 inches over a 12 inch deep frag tank. Everything he owned was well into the final stages of dying and I bought it all with out any hesitation.

There are no blanket answers, there never was...

 

[TJ's Reef]

Wildexpressions, THANK YOU. I've been biting my tongue for two days now waiting for someone other than me to respond likewise. Wearing my Mod Hat could not ever hit the Reply button on what was typed before me....lol
I am still so utterly amazed at the lack of knowledge on this 'LIGHTING' subject when so much FACTUAL INFORMATION is available. The FACTS are that at this time and point in our Reefkeeping hobby LED's are unsurpassed if applied correctly. The whole thing about MH's and T5's being more like the Sun is a negative not a positive, most all organisms relying on photosynthesis were created and/or have evolved to protect themselves from the damaging properties of the Sun and spend a great deal of energy doing this. UV and IFR light energies are both detrimental to unprotected organisms so this alone gives the use of LED's fine tuning a huge advantage. The newer generation full-spectrum commercial units that have followed in the wake of the educated DIYers have most all the positive/productive segments of the light spectrum without much damaging or garbage light included. As so often stated in these thread types "LED's bleached/washed out all my expensive Coral so I changed back to 'X' Light and my Corals never looked better or returned to glorious past" My analogy is this; if you threw a 400w MH over your 40B and it bleached all your prized Coral would you blame the light or take personal responsibility to your own actions admitting that just maybe you could have spent a few minutes educating yourself as to the actual needs of the Coral and output of such light and purchased the 150w model instead. Metal Halide technology at its 'heyday' provided some electronic dimming or multi step ballasts that allowed the user to choose lamps of different wattage and this was good and gave the advanced Reefkeeper some flexibility. Multi channel full spectrum LED's with dimming control available today give us nearly infinite possibilities to produce precisely needed spectrum and intensity for most any photosynthetic organism we choose to keep in our 'Glass Boxes'. Even the ability to spotlight a single colony/clam with greater intensity in a otherwise more subtly lit Reef using narrow focused lenses on a single emitter.

Just my $0.06 added to above comments. I to am not an opponent of MH and T5 lighting, just taking advantage of what I feel is the best choice available to us at this point in time.

Cheers, Todd