Are really stringy white poops a sign of internal parasites or is it a myth?

[MnFish1]

I don't have research to back it up, but my feeling is that many fish have internal parasites, but are able to manage it without symptoms. Those symptoms show up under stress. In some cases, when those stressors get under control, the symptoms subside because the fish goes back to its prior condition, of having parasites, but managing it.

So is a fish with a "manageable" parasite load healthier than a fish that gets treated for parasites, but has to get it's gut biome built back up?

Its interesting - if you look the research - netting a fish, putting it in a new tank, etc all cause 'stress hormone' release - and these are associated with a temporary decrease in immune function. Having said that - there is a difference between 'scientific significance' and 'clinical significance'. As far as I know there is nothing to show that the differences shown would (especially) allow internal parasites to 'take hold'.

I continue to think that some here overestimate the numbers or parasites in the fish that are being delivered - especially intestinal parasites but CI/Velvet, etc. If this weren't the case - how do 80 percent of reefers avoid wiping out their tank everytime they buy a fish? Note this is not a pro or anti quarantine/treatment comment - its common sense?

 

[HotRocks]

But they do matter, because of the high esteem you held in, your opinions carry more weight than ordinary members, and therefore IMO need to be very considered, upto date and non- biased, which is why these debates challenging accepted methods and offering alternative view points are so important, new science may be uncovered, long term implications discussed as well as morality and your input and that of all the staff members and contributors etc is crucial, but your standpoint needs to be flexible and open to discussion IMO.

You missed my point. I should have said my opinion doesn't matter any more than the next person.

I sure do get criticized more than most people (which honestly doesn't bother me). It pushes me to learn more, do more research, be a better hobbyist. I just do what I feel is right. My way isn't the only way, I've said that many times.

If I read someone is treating with velvet with garlic, I will tell them that garlic isn't known to cure velvet. Proven methods are copper, CP, etc.

My methods are pretty "up to date" if you look around. IMO.

Maybe this link would be helpful:
https://www.nationalfishpharm.com/fish_diseases/fecal_disorders.html

 

[4FordFamily]

This is not meant to be offensive - but sometimes this type of quote seems disingenuous - on one hand you say the preponderance of the science suggests treatment of white stringy poop (does it?) on the other hand you say its only your viewpoints. So - is it science? or is it your opinion?

Fair point, here's some of the research Humblefish has cited (he spends hours combing through, I do not):
https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/agricultural-and-biological-sciences/hexamita

Search “white”

https://www.jbl.de/en/blog/detail/247

Search “worm infestation”

https://www.nationalfishpharm.com/fish_diseases/fecal_disorders.html
The above link just organizes information for reference, as @HotRocks posted.

Again, as I have said repeatedly -- I am in no way suggesting the only cause of white stringy feces in fish is due only to internal parasites. I am saying that it is likely, in my opinion. I consider Humblefish's research to be of high value and I hold his work revolutionizing fish disease in high esteem.

 

[MnFish1]

Again, as I have said repeatedly -- I am in no way suggesting the only cause of white stringy feces in fish is due only to internal parasites. I am saying that it is likely, in my opinion. I consider Humblefish's research to be of high value and I hold his work revolutionizing fish disease in high esteem.

Agree with everything you've said. With the chance that I will be further ostracized - You may have seen Humblefish's research - but I have not. Where is it? Seriously not trying to be a mean person here - or criticism anyone - but is there a place where these things are available to look at? Because no one that I know of here was criticizing Humblefishes research - but you are using it to support your viewpoint - and very well may be completely correct? But - If I said 'well I trust @Lasse 100% - where would we be? I would like to see the evidence on both sides... Is that unreasonable?

 

[MnFish1]

BTW - the answer to the original question on the OP - are stringy white poops a sign of internal parasites - I think we can all agree that yes they are a sign. To me the question is do string white poops require a treatment for internal parasites - the answer would be 'no' they do not. Thats just my opinion.

 

[4FordFamily]

Agree with everything you've said. With the chance that I will be further ostracized - You may have seen Humblefish's research - but I have not. Where is it? Seriously not trying to be a mean person here - or criticism anyone - but is there a place where these things are available to look at? Because no one that I know of here was criticizing Humblefishes research - but you are using it to support your viewpoint - and very well may be completely correct? But - If I said 'well I trust @Lasse 100% - where would we be? I would like to see the evidence on both sides... Is that unreasonable?

Did you check out the links and search as outlined above? Those were resources he posted on the matter.

 

[Abhishek]

Agree with everything you've said. With the chance that I will be further ostracized - You may have seen Humblefish's research - but I have not. Where is it? Seriously not trying to be a mean person here - or criticism anyone - but is there a place where these things are available to look at? Because no one that I know of here was criticizing Humblefishes research - but you are using it to support your viewpoint - and very well may be completely correct? But - If I said 'well I trust @Lasse 100% - where would we be? I would like to see the evidence on both sides... Is that unreasonable?

Am extremely sad to see that a time has come when we question even humblefish. He’s one person who has not only revolutionized the concept of qt and treatment but also helped any individual who has ever approached him including me ! Trust me when I say but I have brought back fishes from the brink of death with his help and when I say fishes - these are considered difficult ones like deep water anthias infected with intestinal flagellates , uronema and developing secondary bacterial infection . As if one disease was not enough and now you have to deal with all 3 .

If you want to read more try https://humble.fish/

Am currently fighting a nasty case of uronema with Randall’s anthias . 10 came in looking fine and in a day and I mean 1 day - 5 of them started showing signs of white streaks . By day 2 , 6 were dead . On day 3 , 7th one died .
If it was not for humblefish , I would have lost all 10 . Now I at least have 3 .

How do you not treat them ? Deadly diseases have plagued US wholesellers which might be completely different in Europe . And when say wholeseller - I mean some of the best in US .

Regards,
Abhishek

 

[EmdeReef]

BTW - the answer to the original question on the OP - are stringy white poops a sign of internal parasites - I think we can all agree that yes they are a sign. To me the question is do string white poops require a treatment for internal parasites - the answer would be 'no' they do not. Thats just my opinion.

I agree with you but in terms of treatment i would say “it depends.”

There’s a number of factors to consider. For example if a parrot fish (notorious for internal parasite infections) poops white you may jump on to treatment. Once they stop eating, they’re mostly as good as dead.

With a clown, you may have more time etc etc.

I’ve just spent 5min searching the disease forum and for the most part people asking questions have no idea that white stringy poop is a potential sign of parasites. The threads usually start with something along the lines of the fish is not eating, followed by another member’s question if they’ve noticed white string poop...

IME as long as a fish is eating you have time to take or not take actions, once they stop at least for me very few come back...

 

[Lasse]

Because you have an opinion based on your own research how can that be question Humble Fish?

Once again - if you have the indications of both no eating and stringy white poop - treat. And with metro - you can treat with a bath. It will work if it is Diplomonas that is the agent.

The three links posted by @4FordFamily. Have you really read them? This is not an insult at all. I is just a question. The first does not handle fish but hexamita in pet and it demand an extensive investigation to be sure. The second is about hole in head - do not mention stringy white poops at all. But state that this flagelates is normal in the instentin. The third demand either a closer inspection of the poop or say it can be flagelates.

Sincerely Lasse

 

[4FordFamily]

Because you have an opinion based on your own research how can that be question Humble Fish?

Once again - if you have the indications of both no eating and stringy white poop - treat. And with metro - you can treat with a bath. It will work if it is Diplomonas that is the agent.

The three links posted by @4FordFamily. Have you really read them? This is not an insult at all. I is just a question. The first does not handle fish but hexamita in pet and it demand an extensive investigation to be sure. The second is about hole in head - do not mention stringy white poops at all. But state that this flagelates is normal in the instentin. The third demand either a closer inspection of the poop or say it can be flagelates.

Sincerely Lasse

You have to search to find the mentions. Again, I merely copied and pasted Humblefish. Hexamita is an internal parasite.

 

[Abhishek]

@Lasse - Immense respect for you . But as mentioned earlier, the reefing scene may be different in Europe but in US, I have almost come to conclusions that as and when I get Anthias or Halichoeres or Anampses wrasses, chances are they have intestinal flagellates. Trust me but have tried every possible way of not treating them but simply feed them enough food and reduce shipping stress , develop immunity and all that .

Heck I even got automated BBS supply to my qt system hooked up to supply live freshly hatched brine shrimps every 3 hours .

But some of the deadliest diseases, hardly gives you any time to react . Even if the fishes are eating , they still often fall victim to deadly diseases. May be as @eatbreakfast mentioned, its the shipping stress that causes the parasites to get an upper hand but thats unavoidable as fishes have to be shipped especially where i live .

 

[Lasse]

@EmdeReef Where have I dismissed Humble Fish? Have not mentioned him at all. No it haven't been published scientifically

Sincerely Lasse

 

[MnFish1]

Did you check out the links and search as outlined above? Those were resources he posted on the matter.

It was cross posted. This happens quite often lately. I will read the. Thabks!

 

[MnFish1]

Am extremely sad to see that a time has come when we question even humblefish. He’s one person who has not only revolutionized the concept of qt and treatment but also helped any individual who has ever approached him including me ! Trust me when I say but I have brought back fishes from the brink of death with his help and when I say fishes - these are considered difficult ones like deep water anthias infected with intestinal flagellates , uronema and developing secondary bacterial infection . As if one disease was not enough and now you have to deal with all 3 .

If you want to read more try https://humble.fish/

Am currently fighting a nasty case of uronema with Randall’s anthias . 10 came in looking fine and in a day and I mean 1 day - 5 of them started showing signs of white streaks . By day 2 , 6 were dead . On day 3 , 7th one died .
If it was not for humblefish , I would have lost all 10 . Now I at least have 3 .

How do you not treat them ? Deadly diseases have plagued US wholesellers which might be completely different in Europe . And when say wholeseller - I mean some of the best in US .

Regards,
Abhishek

No one questioned Humblefish. I asked to see his research. That doesn’t mean I disagree with him. Please dont create a false argument where there is no argument. I asked to see both sides

 

[Mastiffsrule]

@Lasse - Immense respect for you . But as mentioned earlier, the reefing scene may be different in Europe but in US, I have almost come to conclusions that as and when I get Anthias or Halichoeres or Anampses wrasses, chances are they have intestinal flagellates. Trust me but have tried every possible way of not treating them but simply feed them enough food and reduce shipping stress , develop immunity and all that .

Heck I even got automated BBS supply to my qt system hooked up to supply live freshly hatched brine shrimps every 3 hours .

But some of the deadliest diseases, hardly gives you any time to react . Even if the fishes are eating , they still often fall victim to deadly diseases. May be as @eatbreakfast mentioned, its the shipping stress that causes the parasites to get an upper hand but thats unavoidable as fishes have to be shipped especially where i live .

I have not kept many anthias over the years, definitely no deep water ones. They are tempting to get.

Oops, sorry I did not say hello yet. Hello.

I am not sure if this applies here, but I picked up 2 average run of the mill lyre tail from an online vendor. Male and female. When the boxes arrived, I opened them up, matched temp and salinity and in they went. Both came in with white cotton on fins. I did a thread with pix showing the spot just to know what it may be. I also noticed a few days later the white string.

I did absolutely nothing other then get them onto the same diet as my others. Clams, blood worms, etc. today they are fine, healthy, 10 times more vibrant in color and no signs of any invaders since the first few weeks.

I agree with Lasse. I just don’t see jumping to a diagnosis of worms and treatment without knowing the whole pix.

Anyway, thanks for reading as always. Well wishes all around

 

[MnFish1]

Am extremely sad to see that a time has come when we question even humblefish. He’s one person who has not only revolutionized the concept of qt and treatment but also helped any individual who has ever approached him including me ! Trust me when I say but I have brought back fishes from the brink of death with his help and when I say fishes - these are considered difficult ones like deep water anthias infected with intestinal flagellates , uronema and developing secondary bacterial infection . As if one disease was not enough and now you have to deal with all 3 .

If you want to read more try https://humble.fish/

Am currently fighting a nasty case of uronema with Randall’s anthias . 10 came in looking fine and in a day and I mean 1 day - 5 of them started showing signs of white streaks . By day 2 , 6 were dead . On day 3 , 7th one died .
If it was not for humblefish , I would have lost all 10 . Now I at least have 3 .

How do you not treat them ? Deadly diseases have plagued US wholesellers which might be completely different in Europe . And when say wholeseller - I mean some of the best in US .

Regards,
Abhishek

btw. Who has said not to treat disease?

 

[Lasse]

You have to search to find the mentions. Again, I merely copied and pasted Humblefish. Hexamita is an internal parasite.

I know what hexamita is - I mentioned it in my first post in this thread if you remember?

Sincerely Lasse

 

[Hermie]

The whole purpose of the scientific method is to question and test. There are no "gods" immune to folly...

I say this as someone that's disagreed with Humblefish before on a specific topic.

 

[Hermie]

Fish that eat and have the poop is not sick because the thin white stringy poop is because that the parasites make the fish not to eat. I have much more about this disease - species sensitivity (because of food preferences) I hope to come back with this information later.

Thanks for sharing this, I have always wondered what constituted the stringy white poop... whether it was the parasites themselves or what... now I know. It's the "intestines" (and probably byproducts, like mucus) of the fish.

 

[chicago]

hmm.. interseting.. i have a bunch of angels and tank is doing great.. knock on wood.. lots of QT.. however, I notice one the other day with this stringy poop. He has been in the tank for a year or more and doing well. I was going to treat the entire tank with some prazzi but have not gotten around to it. All is well so I have avoid it on this basis also. Lets see if I can get a video posted..