Baffled By Weird Chemistry

[Neil Cohen]

Looking for any suggestions, or at least a sanity check TIA

Four days ago, I began to migrate to Soda Ash Solution (SAS) to manage alk and boost the Ph. I had been using Redsea B powder (RS), dosing the stock solution and maintaining a steady 10.92.

To avoid a big swing, I dosed part SAS and part RS for a few days. First day, there was no difference in the ALK. Ran for 2 days at that setting, testing every morning, ALK shot up to 11.98 . I cut the RS by a 3rd, next day it was 11.82, so I turned off the doser to let it drop. Three days and it only dropped .17 dkh. Typical daily consumption was 1.8 dKh/day.

Only other changes in that time period were: adding outside air to skimmer, to bump Ph, and Redsea Nutrition. The nutrition wasn’t a new thing, just had been out of it for a bit.

Additionally, the Ca has been at 523 for months. I was following the Redsea formula mixed reef and, guessing since my tank is mostly softies, it didn’t really need so much. Stopped dosing Ca and Mg till it levels out. Haven’t tested Mg in a while

Corals and fish seem healthy and happy

Tank volume: 100 gal plus sump.
Estimated water volume: 94 gallons
Salinity: 1.024 (mixing salt right now for wc)
Temp: 76.4 - 77.1
ph: 8.02 - 8.14
NO3: 32 ppm
Phos: .628 ppm

Daily Dosing:
3x10ml live phyto
2x4ml Redsea AB+
5x10ml Soda Ash Solution (off right now)
4x10ml DIY NoPox

Working on getting No3 and Phos down

 

[PokeFish]

wow nitrates r high... but corals happy all that matters ( and fish)

 

[zheka757]

don't do a mistake i did, "chasing numbers" got my nitrates and phosphates down, and ticked/killed alot of my lps with it. if corals are happy with what you got, leave it alone.

 

[damsels are not mean]

Working on getting No3 and Phos down

why

Looking for any suggestions, or at least a sanity check TIA

Four days ago, I began to migrate to Soda Ash Solution (SAS) to manage alk and boost the Ph. I had been using Redsea B powder (RS), dosing the stock solution and maintaining a steady 10.92.

To avoid a big swing, I dosed part SAS and part RS for a few days. First day, there was no difference in the ALK. Ran for 2 days at that setting, testing every morning, ALK shot up to 11.98 . I cut the RS by a 3rd, next day it was 11.82, so I turned off the doser to let it drop. Three days and it only dropped .17 dkh. Typical daily consumption was 1.8 dKh/day.

Sounds like the sudden alk spike caused stress and the corals stopped growing as quickly, which caused alk consumption to drop and make the dosing seem messed up. At least that's my guess.

 

[Chrisv.]

Yeah, something (the change in reagents?) Pushed pause on calcification in your tank. Never fear.

 

[Neil Cohen]

Actually months without a change in Ca. The only change at the time was to stop dosing Ca and Mg till it was consumed, but it hasn’t

The Alk spike coincided with the switch to Soda Ash Solution but that doesn’t explain why days without dosing would not consume any alk. See how it is this morning.

As for chasing numbers, I am really not, just looking to get everything stable.

But, man plans and the gods laugh. While focusing on this, I had my ph probe fall in the tank and then simultaneously, the waterproof LED in the turf scrubber had a break in the ribbon and shorted. Grrr

 

[damsels are not mean]

Actually months without a change in Ca. The only change at the time was to stop dosing Ca and Mg till it was consumed, but it hasn’t

The Alk spike coincided with the switch to Soda Ash Solution but that doesn’t explain why days without dosing would not consume any alk. See how it is this morning.

As for chasing numbers, I am really not, just looking to get everything stable.

But, man plans and the gods laugh. While focusing on this, I had my ph probe fall in the tank and then simultaneously, the waterproof LED in the turf scrubber had a break in the ribbon and shorted. Grrr

If the alk spike stressed corals to the point that it paused their growth then it makes sense that alk consumption dropped to almost nothing, even with no dosing.

 

[Neil Cohen]

A week later, the chemistry is still weird:

Sal: 1.025
Ph: 8.2
Alk: 13
Ca: 573
temp: 75.6 - 78
NO3: 206

I had switched to Randy's #1, Part 1 for Alk. Keeping the doser off till it gets back to 10.5. Did a 10% WC with Black bucket. Adding a new heater, trying to get more stable. Also had a power head die, so circulation was lower for a day or so. Replaced it with a more powerful one, more flow.

Also, at the beginning of the week, a battery powered Ph meter fell in the water, was cloudy for a day or two and corals were "sad". Fish were fine and everything bounced back.

I have not added Ca since August, except for what comes in the WC.

Current dosing regimen:
Phyto: 60ml spread through light period, 10ml per
Redsea Reef Energy AB+: 8 ml at 8PM
Randy's #1 part 1: proscribed is 148ml, currently off
Homemade NoPox (vodka, white vinegar, rodi): 40ml, dosed 10ml every 6 hours

Trying to figure out how my Ca and Alk are rising without additives.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

How are you measuring alkalinity?

 

[Neil Cohen]

How are you measuring alkalinity?

Hanna checker

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

When you use it on new salt water, do you get a reasonably expected result for your mix and salinity?

 

[Neil Cohen]

When you use it on new salt water, do you get a reasonably expected result for your mix and salinity?

yes, I use redsea black bucket, mixed to the salinity and temp of the tank, and use it right away.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

If it keeps rising, you may need to intentionally lower it by adding an acid to the new salt water, or VERY carefully, to the tank.

Slow dissolution of rock and sand can slowly add alk and calcium, and if demand is low for any reason, those levels can rise.

 

[LeftyReefer]

Trying to figure out how my Ca and Alk are rising without additives.

You said a week ago your salinity was 1.024
This week you said your salinity was 1.025

With more salt, you also get more CA, MG, ALK, etc...

 

[Neil Cohen]

Make sense and I did a 10% WC with Redsea black bucket, but would that be enough to explain a Ca jump from 525 for 573 and Alk from 10.5 to 13

 

[dwest]

Make sense and I did a 10% WC with Redsea black bucket, but would that be enough to explain a Ca jump from 525 for 573 and Alk from 10.5 to 13

No. But is there a reason your run your alkalinity at over 10 dKH? I was wondering if running that high was contributing to carbonate precipitation in your system. If it were my tank, I would do nothing chemically but weekly 10% water changes and let the alkalinity drift down to about 8. Then start 2 part again.

Verifying test kits is always a good thing too.

Good luck.

 

[Neil Cohen]

I was following the Redsea recipe and my calcium went over 550. They suggested running Alk at 10.5 and not dosing Ca or Mg till the Ca was at 450. Not sure if that was correct, still learning.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Make sense and I did a 10% WC with Redsea black bucket, but would that be enough to explain a Ca jump from 525 for 573 and Alk from 10.5 to 13

If the sg rose from 1.024 to 1.025, then a starting calcium of 523 becomes 548 ppm.

Given the uncertainty in all four measurements (before and after, salinitiy and calcium), it could easily be the explanation.

 

[Neil Cohen]

Thanks, should have paid more attention in chemistry.

Diluting my nitrate tests with clean mixed SW and adjusting salinity before all tests, where possible, for consistency

thanks for all of your help.

 

[Neil Cohen]

Update: I stopped dosing any Alk suppliment on 2/4. Alk was 232 ppm (up from a steady 195). Getting closer. Took a bit for the corals to get back to consuming alk. Still not back to pre-alk-recipe consumption of 32 ppm/day

1/22 through 1/26 - starting ALK 197 ppm - attempted to switch from Redsea B powder to Randy’s #1 by dosing half of the proscribed amounts for each, to start bringing up my ph
1/27 214 - lowered Redsea dose by half
1/28 211
1/29. 211
1/30 197 - mistakingly assumed I had found the right dose and it shot back up
2/1 225 - stopped redsea, lowed randy dosing by half
2/2 226
2/3. 234
2/4. 232 - stop all Alk dosing
2/5. 213
2/7. 207
2/8. 200