Become one of the first owners of the KH Guardian
- Thread starter Chris@CoralVue
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Because everyone can express their opinions so long as it doesn't violate the rules set in place by R2R. I am pretty sure each company that posts a product have already prepared for skepticism or opinions from readers.
Why does everyone use cars as the analogy for luxurious items in this hobby? The two are not even in the same tier and the uses for autombiles outweigh the uses of a tank. To say that this item is a luxury is incorrect; this entire hobby is a luxury.
Yes, this company is bringing to the market a product that will make keeping SPS a lot easier but that doesn't mean they should set a farfetched price for it. Either way, there are more companies joining this market. If I remember correctly, all these units that are coming to market were made by hobbyists, not R & D teams of businesses. I think I recall seeing this one on Facebook months ago made and tested overseas by a hobbyist.
In the end, this hobby is more than about you. Just because you can afford doesn't mean you should belittle anyone else who can't. The people make this hobby great. Without them, there would be a lack of interest and job-loss.
FWIW, I am a technophile. I love to buy new technology because I can afford to do so; you can tell by how much I buy and sell things on here after I move on to the next new item. It is because I can do so and I enjoy it. On the otherhand, I am no fool and know when an item is overpriced.
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chema
Active Member
For that kind of money I'd want the resulting data to be shown to me by Jennifer Aniston
They can have their own oppinions all they want but the purpose of this thread was to introduce a new product and get the word out there. It wasn't intended to have 3,000 people comment "omg $1500?!!". I want to get on here and read about the product and not skim through all of those useless posts. If you can't afford it then that's fine. I'm not judging anyone. It's just something that unfortunately isn't going to be reasonable for everyone.
The use of the car analogy is a good one because technically all cars are a luxury. The only thing in this world that isn't is the air your breathe, the water you drink, and whatever food you can find to consume. Everything else is some form of a luxury.
I'll go back to the Lambo example because it's easy to understand and it's valid. I have the right to go to a dealership and complain in front of everyone how expensive they are and how it's so overpriced. I could start listing out actual costs of some of the components and pointing out how much they are marked up in the cars. However I would also look like a jack@$$ to everyone there and in al honesty why would I even feel the need to do that? The Internet is turning into a place for everyone to complain about everything and think that he rest of us want to see it.
I know there aren't large corporations bringing these products to market. But there is a lot more that factors into the cost than just the components. There is all of the research labor, materials, etc. there are patents and production costs, distribution costs, software development costs and many more. You can't look at it and say "well that's basically just a $300 dosing pump, how come they are charging $1500?!?". My point in all of this was to point out that this is basic economics in play and this happens with everything else that has ever been sold. I'd rather not see 15 pages of people complaining about the price. Come in and read about the product, decide if it's something that would be worth $1500 to you and if not then nobody has a gun to your head. Disregard the thread and move on.
The use of the car analogy is a good one because technically all cars are a luxury. The only thing in this world that isn't is the air your breathe, the water you drink, and whatever food you can find to consume. Everything else is some form of a luxury.
I'll go back to the Lambo example because it's easy to understand and it's valid. I have the right to go to a dealership and complain in front of everyone how expensive they are and how it's so overpriced. I could start listing out actual costs of some of the components and pointing out how much they are marked up in the cars. However I would also look like a jack@$$ to everyone there and in al honesty why would I even feel the need to do that? The Internet is turning into a place for everyone to complain about everything and think that he rest of us want to see it.
I know there aren't large corporations bringing these products to market. But there is a lot more that factors into the cost than just the components. There is all of the research labor, materials, etc. there are patents and production costs, distribution costs, software development costs and many more. You can't look at it and say "well that's basically just a $300 dosing pump, how come they are charging $1500?!?". My point in all of this was to point out that this is basic economics in play and this happens with everything else that has ever been sold. I'd rather not see 15 pages of people complaining about the price. Come in and read about the product, decide if it's something that would be worth $1500 to you and if not then nobody has a gun to your head. Disregard the thread and move on.
ReeferDave01
Active Member
For large tanks probably worth the value. Needs to be in $200-300 range for most hobbyists
Again, they aren't trying to sell it to 100% of people. There are lots of people here who will end up buying it if it turns out to be a quality product. I think someone just mentioned that their sold out of the pre sales? They know what their cost is. Let's just say for arguments sake it's $500. They could have priced it at $600 but they didn't. They chose $1500. So for everyone they sell at this price they would have had to have sold 10 at $600.
This is a luxury item so they know that no matter what they won't get anywhere near probably a 50% adoption rate at any price. So this is the price point they feel will generate the most revenue.
Maybe they are wrong, if they are we will see price cuts. If apex comes out with theirs which doesn't do as much as this one but is significantly cheaper and nobody sees the value of this one vs Apex's given the price difference then this company needs to make another choice to cut prices. That or live with the significant loss in sales.
nervousmonkey
LPS Lover, SPS Enabler
The market technically has in this case, as the market is only determined by the number of people willing to pay that price for the number of units released, and apparently that many people have said that they would buy it. The market is not all of the people available, not even the majority, but simply the number of people willing to pay the price listed. I am not trying to cause any arguments here, just pointing out what I see based on my opinion. However, the fact that this is based on economic principles, and follows the same principles of economics, shows that this is completely normal. Let CoralVue make their money on the people who have signed up, allow more to sign up and then bring the technology in house to help bring price down. It's pretty simply actually, and CoralVue is trying to target that 75% who said no the first time around, so they can get more sales. CoralVue in this case is Ferrari trying to figure out how to sell one at $75K, so it's a weird business model for now, we all get that and can wait until the price comes down so we can get it.
I agree with you @clownsrcool , this is economics. First year too, not complex economics. I agree that with all technology based equipment, there is a range of pieces that work together to function, and we can't calculate the cost of manufacture unless we build one ourselves, but even that doesn't matter. The market that CoralVue wanted has already made a decision on the KHG and have purchased it.
Completely agree that arguing is not solving anything. We need to come together as a group and figure out what we want this thing to do for us, whether or not Jennifer Aniston is involved.
Let's all wait to complain, find out what the other manufacturers are going to charge, and understand that there is someone out there, or lots of someones, who are looking at this and saying, "What? People are paying THAT for that kind of machine! Well, let me make one and see". Same economic principles at play, competition will come in and change the way it's priced.
Last point, I think that the people that are complaining are the ones who are angry that they can't afford this thing. I can't come up with another explanation....
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To the OP, sorry for the distraction I have made in your post. I was trying to get the thread back on track for questions about the product so that we can all determine if it's going to be a feasible product that each of us would want to purchase. I only hoped to make this information more accessible by not having it buried in a sea of complaints.
Waterjockey
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Thing is, for a "large system", I kinda question it's usefulness. Once a system is "stable" (and larger systems *tend* to be more stable than smallet ones...no a hard rule, but on average), how useful is testing alk on an hourly or similar frequency?
I tested alk daily while setting up and "tuning" my dosing. I now test weekly...it doesn't really change, probably going to move to monthly testing in the near future. The more I have read about the various models of this undoubably cool bit of tech, the more I have wondered how much usefulness /$$ factor it has?
kattz
Old surfer dude
Signed up on a "wait and see" basis. That's a lot of bling for an unproven system. Neptune's system is coming out as well, but with the absolutely ludicrous price of the "new" Apex, I'll stick with my "classic" and think we'll all choke on Neptune's system price as well for their DKh system.
Forsaken77
Valuable Member
Coralvue sells avarage hobbyist level equipment that they try to make out to be better than they are.
Those SOLE aquariums that were supposed to be identical to Elos turned out to have crooked panels and nowhere near the quality of Elos, though now they started to distribute Elos systems directly.
The Coralvue skimmets are not good, the Turbo Twist UV is not good, the Icecap sumps are so so. The only reliable brand so far is Reef Octopus, which is still the bottom of mid-range equipment.
So the fact that a company is asking this much for an item, with no track record, is inexcusable. They have no proven track record for ANY of their high-end stuff. It's almost like they're looking for something to overprice and so far all those items have flunked.
So if you have no proven track record of quality high-end gear, you have no business asking the price that they're asking for this. Just my $.02
Forsaken77
Valuable Member
I would like if they just came out with a stand alone monitor by itself, kinda like the Milwaukee Ph monitor with probe. No controller, just a monitor.
But even more so, I would like to see a phosphate and nitrate monitor.
First get rid of all the pain in the but testing kits with use of monitors, THEN talk to me about an overpriced device like this.
But even more so, I would like to see a phosphate and nitrate monitor.
First get rid of all the pain in the but testing kits with use of monitors, THEN talk to me about an overpriced device like this.
reefaland310
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I'll wait for the third or fourth generation to come out before I spend that money.
Martyd
Active Member
If they have $1000+ to spend on corals, they have $1000 for this too.Great product but I dont honestly see how a person whom is successful with sps would drop $1000+ on this when their current methods are clearly working. That $1000+ could go towards more corals
Maybe Coralvue should send out 10 units for beta testing at a more reasonable pricing. If I were you, I would send one to Than of Tidalgardens because of his Youtube base and informative, quality videos.
Sharvey103
ReefAddicted
Nice looking but very pricey. I think I would rather test once twice a day than spend $1100 for a prototype.
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