Big 3 Shootout Alk, Ca, Mg: RedSea, Nyos, Elos, Salifert, API, Hanna, Triton, AWT

jason2459 · Feb 12, 2016

Nyos Reefer Test Kits Alk, Ca, Mg

The Nyos line brings another set of tests to market to choose from. The cost for them is slightly lower then Salifert with the Alk being the cheapest around $15 and Ca/Mg each costing around $20.

I kind have gotten mixed results with Nyos in both experience with the kits (Nitrate vs PO4) and now test results which I'll just dive into here. All kits were pretty basic and simple titration tests easy to perform.

Alkalinity
Nothing really special with this kit and lowest resolution besides API. Which for being twice the cost of API I'd expect at least better then 1dKH resolution.

Test results with this kit hit in line with the others at 12dKH

Calcium
This was pretty out there in terms of results so it will be interesting what Triton and AWT come back with for my Calcium levels and compare them to each of the test kits to see if this one or the others are closer.

The resolution of this kit is rather impressive at with in 5 ppm which is really good for a hobby kit. Totally opposite of the Alk kit's low resolution.

Results for this kit were 550 (had to refill the syringe)

Magnesium
I like this kit and see it as a good alternative to the Salifert Mg kit. Simple and easy to perform. Easy for me to see the color changes and results seem pretty reliable. But the color change part says it can be blue or gray so watch it. My end result came out grayish.

Resolution is a respectable 15ppm

Results with this kit came in at 1440

Alk I would skip for sure. If you need a quick low resolution kit there's API for cheaper. Calcium I'm curious how it's higher 550 number lines up vs. Triton's results. Mg I would seriously consider using again and cost is slightly cheaper then Salifert Mg kit.

jason2459 · Feb 12, 2016

Salifert Profi Tests Alk, Ca, Mg

Salifert test kits have been around for a long time and I would consider a kind of gold standard for hobby grade kits. Costs are moderate with Alk being around $15-20, Calcium around $20-25, and Mg around $25-30.

Salifert kits have generally easy to follow instructions as they've been around so long that they've been edited many times over the years to be clearer. They also include direction for high and low resolution by cutting the samples and reagents in half which does help extend the number of tests that can be performed.

Over time some have mentioned issues with being able to tell the end point colors but as you'll see all the kits tested above have the same variations like calcium for instance will go through a couple color changes.

Alkalinity
This kit has a fairly high resolution of around .3dKH which is typically more then sufficient for most reefers. Though each drop is less but accuracy isn't guaranteed.

My results from this kit were 12.16dKH

Calcium
Just like with the Alk kit this has a difference in what it's resolution can be and what it's accuracy limit is. Each drop has a resolution 5ppm but Salifert has an accuracy of +/- 10ppm which is still more then good enough to know where your calcium levels are at.

The color changes with this I felt pretty easy to see and the violet vs. blue is very different.

My results for this kit were 470

Magnesium
This has always been my go to kit for Mg. It's been comparable in the past to Triton and AWT. Just like the other Salifert kits easy and clear instructions. Seems like people have had issues with seeing the end point color change. Instructions say to look for a blue or gray color. I usually see blue.

From my understanding this was specifically designed for saltwater to not allow other elements like Strontium to interfere with this kit. It also has a decent accuracy of 30ppm with each drop being around 15ppm.

My results came in at 1470

I've found all three of these over time to be consistent and more then accurate enough for me. Cost has usually kept me using other brands for Alk and Ca.

7hogwarts · Feb 12, 2016

Great write up. I'll be following along.

jason2459 · Feb 12, 2016

Hanna HI 755 Alkalinity Checker

I've heard lots of good things about this checker so decided to pick one up. I didn't get the calcium kit as it looked like way to much work and not nearly the favorable reviews as the Alk checker.

However, there is a recall going on right now for certain lot numbers that are for fairly current reagents as well. I just bought the Alk kit and the reagent it came with is on that recall list which was fairly disappointing.

Recall site
https://hannainst.wufoo.com/forms/w1hzjs2j1b4ejyu/
The Alk 755 checker has a really high resolution compared to all the other Alk kits so if that's a very high priority this could be an option.

It has a 1ppm resolution and an accuracy of ±5 ppm. That converts to a resolution of 0.056dKH and an accuracy of ±0.28dKH !!

Unlike the 736 ULR Phosphorous checker I have this was so much easier. I still took very careful care not to touch the vial with my fingers. But it's a liquid reagent instead of the powder packets which was very convenient and ease. No rushing and no waiting 3 minutes.

There's also a Reference Calibration kit for this but the device itself can not be calibrated by the end user.

My checker was well with in range for accuracy

Even with the reagent being on that recall my results were pretty consistent with all the other Alk tests.

Results with this checker was 217ppm which converts to 12.152dKH

Up until this point I haven't been convinced to move away from the API test kit for Alkalinity. API alk has always been consistent, easy to use, cheap, and more then accurate enough for me. I'm not concerned with high resolution for Alk. This checker was so easy and less messy (API stopper often leaks) I may keep using this device as it was so easy to use and quick.

jason2459 · Feb 12, 2016

API Alkalinity and Calcium

API has gotten a bad rap for being cheap. Well, yeah they are cheap with Calcium being around $8-12 and Alkalinity around $6-$10. What's wrong with that?

If you need high resolution to know what your alkalinity is to a decimal point and calcium with in 10ppm then no these are not the kit for you. But no reason to say that API is a terrible test kit. That's not what they were made for.

In fact over the years API has been my go to for Alk and Calcium and have had very consistent and reliable results that when cross checked have proven themselves accurate. My 2010 Salifert vs API link in the first post is one reference to this.

One thing to note is their vial markings may not be consistent or accurate. In the end though it doesn't really effect the end results much if any due to the fact these are not high resolution kits. I do use a syringe however to pull the 5ml but when I ever though to look seem fairly close to the lines.

Alkalinity
Can't be any easier. Drop by drop until you get a bright yellow. There will be a slight color change before that but usually about 1 more drop and you're at the end point.

Resolution and reading is a simple 1 drop = 1dKH

My results with this kit was 12

Calcium
Another very simple quick check on a basic parameter. Can easily give me around what my calcium levels are with a resolution of 20ppm.

With this kit and other tritrations for Ca you can short cut this by dripping in around 80% of the reagent before going drop by drop. End point here is again blue not the purple.

My results the other night were 500

I thought I had pictures taken of the start and end points but I guess not. Not sure what happen to them.

I know I'll continue to use the API calcium kit and most likely the Alk kit but that Hanna checker was very quick an easy as well.

jason2459 · Feb 12, 2016

Just the numbers

Temp: 76.7F
pH: 8.13

Salinity:
Apex and Veegee: 35.5ppt
AWT: TBD
Triton: TBD

Nitrates:
Redsea: undetectable < .25
AWT: TBD

Phosphates:
Hanna: 8ppb phosphorous = 0.0245ppm phosphates converted
AWT: TBD
Triton TBD

Alkalinity:
Red Sea: 11.76
Elos: 11.5
Nyos: 12
Salifert: 12.1
Hanna: 12.15
API: 12
AWT: TBD

Calcium:
Red Sea: 470
Elos: 470
Nyos: 550
Salifert: 470
API: 500
AWT: TBD
Triton: TBD

Magnesium:
Red Sea: 2080
Elos: 1350
Nyos: 1440
Salifert: 1470
AWT: TBD
Triton: TBD

jason2459 · Feb 12, 2016

Quick thoughts.

Red Sea Mg: Don't believe it for one second and will never use it again.

Calcium: Very curious where Triton and AWT come in with the calcium number. API hit's right in the middle of the results with 500 and Nyos being a high outlier.

Magnesium: I'm not confident in the Elos kit with it's multiple phases and not getting one of the phases wrong. All those reagents and steps just introduce to many variables that could cause interference. Improperly testing to reagents being off or bad. Red sea, already stated above. I'm done with it. I'll stick with the Salifert here as I trust it.

Alkalinity: Pick one any one. Really, they all lined up right with each other. Pick one you want and go with it. For me it's most likely going to still be API. Why do I need to know if my alkalinity is 11.76 or 12.15 when just saying 12 will do and for me I'm in the process of bringing it down to around 10dKH. If I was going for a ULNS system, however you want to define that, I would look at the Hanna or Salifert for the high resolution and wanting to keep alk as low and close to 7-8 as possible.

AWT and Triton samples were shipped out yesterday and on their way. I should have results by around this time next week or the beginning of the week after that.

mic209 · Feb 13, 2016

jason2459 said:
Hanna HI 755 Alkalinity Checker

I've heard lots of good things about this checker so decided to pick one up. I didn't get the calcium kit as it looked like way to much work and not nearly the favorable reviews as the Alk checker.

However, there is a recall going on right now for certain lot numbers that are for fairly current reagents as well. I just bought the Alk kit and the reagent it came with is on that recall list which was fairly disappointing.

Recall site
https://hannainst.wufoo.com/forms/w1hzjs2j1b4ejyu/
The Alk 755 checker has a really high resolution compared to all the other Alk kits so if that's a very high priority this could be an option.

It has a 1ppm resolution and an accuracy of ±5 ppm. That converts to a resolution of 0.056dKH and an accuracy of ±0.28dKH !!

Unlike the 736 ULR Phosphorous checker I have this was so much easier. I still took very careful care not to touch the vial with my fingers. But it's a liquid reagent instead of the powder packets which was very convenient and ease. No rushing and no waiting 3 minutes.

There's also a Reference Calibration kit for this but the device itself can not be calibrated by the end user.

My checker was well with in range for accuracy

Even with the reagent being on that recall my results were pretty consistent with all the other Alk tests.

Results with this checker was 217ppm which converts to 12.152dKH

Up until this point I haven't been convinced to move away from the API test kit for Alkalinity. API alk has always been consistent, easy to use, cheap, and more then accurate enough for me. I'm not concerned with high resolution for Alk. This checker was so easy and less messy (API stopper often leaks) I may keep using this device as it was so easy to use and quick.

Just an FYI, the reagents themselves aren't bad. It's the seal in the lid, once you remove the foil seal the white seal in the lid can react with the reagent. The replacements they're sending out can be the same lot numbers, just with a different seal in the lid. Keep your bottle stored upright and you shouldn't have a problem.

jason2459 · Feb 13, 2016

mic209 said:
Just an FYI, the reagents themselves aren't bad. It's the seal in the lid, once you remove the foil seal the white seal in the lid can react with the reagent. The replacements they're sending out can be the same lot numbers, just with a different seal in the lid. Keep your bottle stored upright and you shouldn't have a problem.

Yep, good point.

Waxhaw reefer · Feb 13, 2016

I did use Red Sea for alk cal and mag, now just mag, but almost empty, alk and cal I use Hanna, but like all, if the first test is good I never retest, but if u use one of those 10 ml syringe and fill it to 10 then inject into a Hanna bottle it goes over the 10 ml mark ?? So I just go over a bit, what's with that?? Wouldn't that throw the entire test off??

jason2459 · Feb 13, 2016

Waxhaw reefer said:
I did use Red Sea for alk cal and mag, now just mag, but almost empty, alk and cal I use Hanna, but like all, if the first test is good I never retest, but if u use one of those 10 ml syringe and fill it to 10 then inject into a Hanna bottle it goes over the 10 ml mark ?? So I just go over a bit, what's with that?? Wouldn't that throw the entire test off??

Either the vial is off, miniscus isn't being accounted for, syringe is off, or not reading the syringe correctly.

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/reef-chemistry-question-of-the-day-161-using-a-syringe.226267/

Randy Holmes-Farley · Feb 14, 2016

Waxhaw reefer said:
I did use Red Sea for alk cal and mag, now just mag, but almost empty, alk and cal I use Hanna, but like all, if the first test is good I never retest, but if u use one of those 10 ml syringe and fill it to 10 then inject into a Hanna bottle it goes over the 10 ml mark ?? So I just go over a bit, what's with that?? Wouldn't that throw the entire test off??

To be sure you are using the syringe correctly, check this Reef Chemistry Question of the day:

Reef Chemistry Question of the Day 161 Using a Syringe
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/reef-chemistry-question-of-the-day-161-using-a-syringe.226267/

bwoodward0012 · Feb 16, 2016

Huge thanks for this. I've always wondered if I was testing properly or not, and whether I am stopping at the correct end point. I currently use Red Sea pro kits for everything, but have always been skeptical of the magnesium reading I get. I regularly test calcium, alkalinity, and magnesium and occasionally test for nitrate. I have the colors test package, but most of those tests are so involved and/ or time consuming that I rarely use them.

Kungpaoshizi · Feb 16, 2016

Nice writeup, ty!

As a side note I saw little difference between red sea and salifert mag tests... Though that doesn't account for what could be reagent issues. (hanna is notorious for odd-reading po4 reagents from what I've seen, sometimes it was 5 tests a day)

jason2459 · Feb 17, 2016

bwoodward0012 said:
Huge thanks for this. I've always wondered if I was testing properly or not, and whether I am stopping at the correct end point. I currently use Red Sea pro kits for everything, but have always been skeptical of the magnesium reading I get. I regularly test calcium, alkalinity, and magnesium and occasionally test for nitrate. I have the colors test package, but most of those tests are so involved and/ or time consuming that I rarely use them.

Thanks, the end points are tough to spot for some people. That's where those digital devices are so nice to have. It will be nice to see how many others get developed. But they will, just like all other test kits, be susceptible to user, kit, testing and reagent errors.

Kungpaoshizi said:
Nice writeup, ty!

As a side note I saw little difference between red sea and salifert mag tests... Though that doesn't account for what could be reagent issues. (hanna is notorious for odd-reading po4 reagents from what I've seen, sometimes it was 5 tests a day)

Thanks. I will concede that it's entirely possible I'm doing something wrong with the Red Sea Mg kit and if so I still see no reason at all for me to keep trying to get it correct when I get reliable and consistent results from other Mg kits like Salifert. As for the hanna PO4 checker they have had reagent issues in the past. I've been lucky enough to have never gotten a bad reagent batch as have many other brands. It's always been consistent and realiable for me.

Testing through out the day for PO4 should vary based on when and how much you are feeding, what you are using to reduce those levels, and many other variables like light timing and growth of algae or bacteria.

I can consistently get the same variation of PO4 every day. Usually the lowest at night just after lights out. Which is why in my PO4 shootout I gathered the sample water for all the tests all at the same time.

Randy Holmes-Farley · Feb 17, 2016

jason2459 said:
I can consistently get the same variation of PO4 every day. Usually the lowest at night just after lights out. Which is why in my PO4 shootout I gathered the sample water for all the tests all at the same time.

How large was that variation?

jason2459 · Feb 17, 2016

Randy Holmes-Farley said:
How large was that variation?

I want to say I've seen anywhere between .03-.06 variations up and down through out the day. I don't need a test kit to tell me either when the fluctuations are happening as the PO4 fluctuations also coordinates when my Duncan shrinks up. It does it when PO4 levels rise or fall. My leather seems to have similar reactions when they fall.

I did log it one day as I was discussing it in my tank journal on RC and coordinated it with pictures of the two

Here's a couple graphs I was about to pull up in Apex Fusion of one instance where I checked earlier in the evening

And then some time after lights out. I could go look at the Apex seasonal charts as I have my lights timed with it if you wanted to know how long after.

And the instance I was talking about

My Duncan has always been a good PO4 indicator of either too high, too low, or drifting down to fast. It doesn't like any of those. If it's all closed up for a length of time I know now one of those scenarios is occurring.

Like the past few days my PO4 has been in a good range (.04-.08) for the duncan as its been looking. If it closes up for a longer then normal period of time its either because the PO4 has gone over .09 or its dropping again. I don't know why my system fluctuates so much but it does. I do feed a lot but I don't run any GFO or anything to rapidly remove PO4.

I went ahead and tested PO4 as I've done several times in the past to prove my theory and so far it's been accurate.

Tonight I tested 26 on the Hanna ULR Checker converting to .08

I believe my main phosphate exports are through carbon dosing and the skimmer along with harvesting algae. Currently running a Turbo ATS.

It's fighting a heavy fish population and very heavy feeding. Pellets fed 4x per day automatically. Meaty foods fed manually 2-3x a night. And a sheet of algae once a day.

So, either over the next couple days PO4 will increase slightly or drop. Either way my Duncan is not going to be happy. lol

Here it is tonight. I've lost count on how many heads it has. It's well over 20.

And here it is. My yellow Fiji leather has been acting the same way since I got it. It's either doing its normal shedding or its getting ****ed off at the higher PO4. My guess is my PO4 has already climbed a bit with a feeding of meaty foods earlier tonight after I did that Hanna test. Last feeding of pellets just happened. And I'm about to feed some more meaty foods. Then my tank will decide to kick into gear and reduce those phosphates back down in the next day or so.

I'll test my PO4 levels again in about an hour.

And before the lights went out my Duncan got mad. It normally does this after lights off but not before.

Looks like I'm catching not a peaking event going to high but the downward event that they also don't like. As I just took this measurement 10 minutes ago:

16ppb or .05ppm converted.

Randy Holmes-Farley · Feb 18, 2016

Interesting. So you see this effect on the corals regularly each day?

jason2459 · Feb 18, 2016

Randy Holmes-Farley said:
Interesting. So you see this effect on the corals regularly each day?

Yep, mainly my Duncan. I first noticed the drop in PO4 causing my Duncan to pull in back when I first started with shapelock pellets when "bio" pellets were first coming out back in 2010. Also noticed fast reductions to irritate other LPS as well like torch corals.

google searching: Shapelock DIY N/P reducing Pellets or Nuking the tank...
Will bring up that thread.

Shortly after playing around with that I switched to Vinegar (~2011). Most recently in the past couple months I switched to a Vinegar/Vodka mix (TMZ's 690/310ml ratio from that thread breaking down what's in NoPox).