Chemiclean Nuked tank!

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

It is due to O2. I have never run chemiclean at full strength. I always have started out at half the recommended amount if I ever saw the start of cyano and never got a full outbreak. Typically controlled nutrients and only had to dose one at start of outbreak.

Why do you think chemiclean impacts O2? Dead cyano decaying? Possibly.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Personally, I think many of the problems with folks using chemiclean for cyano are the known toxins that cyano have.

Manual removal of as much cyano as possible is strongly recommended (by me) before using an antibiotic (such as chemiclean) to treat for cyano.

 

[Knapp870]

Completely disagree with o2 theory. There would have been impact to my fish and there was not.

I would also like to mention that a bad batch has been ruled out as I dosed my frag tank which is a separate system with 3 scoops in 40 gallons the day after I dosed the display and did NOT increase any o2. No affect to the zoas in the tank and does not appear to have any affect on a couple sps though it isn't very fully stocked.

Thanks Randy! Totally possible but like I mentioned there wasn't much to remove unless it was hidden back in the rockwork that I wasn't aware of

 

[Lenny_S]

Personally, I think many of the problems with folks using chemiclean for cyano are the known toxins that cyano have.

Manual removal of as much cyano as possible is strongly recommended (by me) before using an antibiotic (such as chemiclean) to treat for cyano.

@Randy Holmes-Farley I agree, and I also agree with your previous post that it is not the depletion of O2 but the buildup of CO2, so gas exchange is important and people should understand it is not the same as oxygenation.

I still recommend people who choose to use Chemiclean to follow the steps I posted earlier in this thread.

@Knapp870 sorry for your troubles. Chemiclean is a pretty potent antibiotic. The times I've used it in my tank or helped out family members with using it we always followed a very rigid process...
1) Manually remove as much cyano as possible

When the cyano dies off it releases a small amount of toxins into the water, if you have a lot in the system when you start it could cause problems. Since you can't use carbon while the treatment is ongoing there is nothing to remove them. This can be compounded by the corals (especially softies and Zoas) releasing toxins from stress.​

2) Get the dose right

We use this calculator and it accounts for sump, sand, and rock. http://reef.diesyst.com/volcalc/volcalc.html​

3) For an in sump skimmer, remove the cup and set it wide open (if not use a large air stone and air pump)

It's critical to keep a lot of gas exchange going during the whole process​

4) Add the dose slowly

It seems to be less of a shock to the system if you add the dose over the course of a few hours, the liquid Chemiclean is great for this, but you can do it with the dissolved powder too.​

5) Blackout the tank and sump during the treatment

This seems to increase the effectiveness of the treatment and lowers the stress for the critters.​

6) At the end of treatment do a 25% WC and add GAC back to the system

We've done the WC by putting the cup back on the skimmer and running a line from it to a bucket to remove the water and let it skim super wet. This seems to accelerate the removal of the remaining Chemiclean.​

The product has been very effective and safe for us, hope these procedures can help others use it a little safer.

 

[Brew12]

Personally, I think many of the problems with folks using chemiclean for cyano are the known toxins that cyano have.

Manual removal of as much cyano as possible is strongly recommended (by me) before using an antibiotic (such as chemiclean) to treat for cyano.

Can you confirm that Chemiclean contains an antibiotic? I've seen many people on here saying that it isn't an antibiotic.
I understand them wanting to protect trade secrets but I wish they would be at least a little more open about what is actually in the product.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Can you confirm that Chemiclean contains an antibiotic? I've seen many people on here saying that it isn't an antibiotic.
I understand them wanting to protect trade secrets but I wish they would be at least a little more open about what is actually in the product.

We always suspected it was erythromycin because of the very strange wording that it was not "erythromycin succinate:". Sort of like saying you don't have a red car when asked if you have a car.

But yes. Apparently a government office in Germany tested it and found it was erythromycin:

http://www.ultimatereef.net/forums/archive/index.php/t-526917.html

 

[Brew12]

We always suspected it was erythromycin because of the very strange wording that it was not "erythromycin succinate:". Sort of like saying you don't have a red car when asked if you have a car.

But yes. Apparently a government office in Germany tested it and found it was erythromycin:

http://www.ultimatereef.net/forums/archive/index.php/t-526917.html

Thank you Randy. I actually found an article in German about this that I posted previously in this thread and yet some people still were claiming it was not an antibiotic. I've requested a professional contact I have in Germany to see if he can get a copy of the official lab report that was referenced. My German isn't good enough to figure out how to search the labs site for it.

Really appreciate you taking the time to respond!

 

[Knapp870]

I am guilty of this obviously but isn't it ironic that we as reefers spend so much effort in controlling what gets into our tanks and keeping them controlled then are willing to dump something we have no idea what it contains and the company is unwilling to provide us with information around?

Lesson learned.

Update: yesterday green slider appeared to have lost rest of its polyps... Thought it may have been able to pull through,

Another euphyllia head dead

One echinata colony completely wiped

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Thank you Randy. I actually found an article in German about this that I posted previously in this thread and yet some people still were claiming it was not an antibiotic. I've requested a professional contact I have in Germany to see if he can get a copy of the official lab report that was referenced. My German isn't good enough to figure out how to search the labs site for it.

Really appreciate you taking the time to respond!

Many people simply accept manufacturer assertions about products even though some are misleading (like this one) and some are just flat out wrong (whether intentionally or simply through utter ignorance of the properties their own products).

 

[Knapp870]

What's the opinion on introducing new frags? I had purchased some last week and put off their shipment until yesterday. They arrived today and I have them floating for temp. I have ran carbon for ~4 days, 45 gallons of water change or so and reduced the light along with running the skimmer....safe or no?

 

[Chiefmaster30]

I started dosing Red Sea no3 po4 3 days ago. Can I treat my DT with chemiclean while using this

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

That may complicate it, if the bacteria consuming the organics in the NOPOX are killed by the antibiotic treatment, but without knowing what species are present, it is hard to know if that is a concern or not.

 

[Knapp870]

Kill count is currently 7 sps

 

[twilliard]

I think we have to be careful when we say "toxins" released by dying cyanobacteria as we are not conclusive on the genus involved in the tank.
http://www.who.int/water_sanitation_health/resourcesquality/toxcyanchap3.pdf
That is a good read about the toxins produced by sorted genus of cyanobacteria

 

[Knapp870]

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

heart break

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

I started dosing Red Sea no3 po4 3 days ago. Can I treat my DT with chemiclean while using this

So with what rands is saying. one or the other. Lower your po if thats the case for use. let the system become stable again, Then administer the antibiotic. if needed.

Edit. That's how I would interpret and implement.

That may complicate it, if the bacteria consuming the organics in the NOPOX are killed by the antibiotic treatment, but without knowing what species are present, it is hard to know if that is a concern or not.

 

[ReefingwithO]

I've used chemiclean 2 times this year to get rid of a cyano issue. I have a 75 gallon red sea reefer 350 and I only used 4.5 scoops instead of 8. After I minus rocks and sand my tank only has a little over 40 gallons of actual water.

I used it to take care of a green and red cyano issue. Went away and never came back.

My skimmer went nuts for a while after. I had my skimmer drain into a bucket and then added fresh saltwater to replace what was being drained. It took almost 15 gallons before it started to calm down.

My nitrates were 5 and phosphates was undectable and I was doing 20% water changes a week and that wasn't helping to clear up the cyano issues.

 

[bif24701]

I never had problems with either red slime product. I Used as directed. It did cause my skimmer to over flow no matter what so I just let it drain back into the sump. Didn't want to turn it off and reduce O2 levels.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Phosphate may be too low for you to detect, but the cyano is still getting plenty. Looking to export the phosphate with something like a binder before the cyano gets it can work.