Chemistry Woes...?

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Well, other than high nitrates and phosphates I'm not sure what could have caused it. I have a log book of my parameters, I test weekly. As mentioned, my demand for ALK increased and CA dropped, but no swings, it all happened slowly.

My sps got brown tips and started losing color, some eventually experienced RTN, some did not. Since my actions of attacking the nutrients I have gotten some color back, but it's not back to normal yet.

But you don't test for heavy metals, bacterial pathogens, etc.

 

[CodyRVA]

But you don't test for heavy metals, bacterial pathogens, etc.

True. I've tested for copper just to rule it out and it came back fine, but that's it. Nothing has entered the system since the issue arose, so it would have had to be in there from the start.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

True. I've tested for copper just to rule it out and it came back fine, but that's it. Nothing has entered the system since the issue arose, so it would have had to be in there from the start.

If you used a kit, that's not very useful. I'm not saying it is copper, but testing it involves specialized testing, such as ICP by Triton.

Copper kits are used to determine medication levels, not to say reef tank water is OK. They cannot accurately test low enough.

 

[CodyRVA]

If you used a kit, that's not very useful. I'm not saying it is copper, but testing it involves specialized testing, such as ICP by Triton.

Copper kits are used to determine medication levels, not to say reef tank water is OK. They cannot accurately test low enough.

Gotcha, yea I just used a kit.

 

[mcarroll]

Seems like there have been some drastic moves....these are rarely a good thing unless in an emergency situation.

I think the stylo's and birdsnests are better at prey/particle capture so might be more resistant to other swings in the tank with PO4 or alkalinity. Work on eliminating these inconsistencies....stability is much more important than most numbers.

Relative lighting can play into this too.....brighter light + nutrient limitation is not a good combination for corals as it leads to stress they can have trouble dealing with.

I would focus on removing less nitrates from the water, or if you think it makes sense instead to feed more or start making a small, regular dose of nitrates.

 

[mcarroll]

Not all corals are in equally bright lighting was my point on the lighting bit....use a light meter to gauge differences between the corals to see if there's any correspondence with the affected population. Even a lux meter can do that, and they don'y cost anything. (Or very little.)

 

[CodyRVA]

Work on eliminating these inconsistencies....stability is much more important than most numbers.

Relative lighting can play into this too.....brighter light + nutrient limitation is not a good combination for corals as it leads to stress they can have trouble dealing with.

I would focus on removing less nitrates from the water, or if you think it makes sense instead to feed more or start making a small, regular dose of nitrates.

Couldn't agree more. I posted my parameters over the last few weeks below, they are consistent without swings; I'm still leaning towards the PO4 being way out of control causing the coral loss; i don't think lighting or lack of nutrients played a role in the issue. As stated previously, nothing happened over night, this started to rear its head, then got better, then worse, and now finally starting to show positive gains. After the move was complete I placed many of these frags and most if not all were already encrusted before this issue started. I was hoping routine maintenance would resolve the issue, but clearly the damage had been done. I posted the affected and unaffected corals below for documentation.

September 30th, 2016: PH: 7.8, ALK: 8.6, CA: 480, MG: 1335, SAL: 1.024, PO4: 1, NO3: 30
October 1st, 2016: PH: 7.8, ALK: 8.6, CA: 480, MG: 1335, SAL: 1.024, PO4: 0.5, NO3: 25
October 2nd, 2016: PH: 7.8, ALK: 8.6, CA: 480, MG: 1335, SAL: 1.024, PO4: 0.25, NO3: 7.5
October 3rd, 2016: PH: 7.9, ALK: 8.6, CA: 480, MG: 1335, SAL: 1.024, PO4: 0.25, NO3: 5
October 5th, 2016: PH: 8.0, ALK: 8.6, CA: 480, MG: 1335, SAL: 1.024, PO4: 0.25, NO3: 5
October 9th, 2016: PH: 8.1, ALK: 8.5, CA: 480, MG: 1350, SAL: 1.024, PO4: 0.20, NO3: 2
October 16th, 2016: PH: 8.0, ALK: 8.2, CA: 475, MG: 1320, SAL: 1.024, PO4: 0.15, NO3: 1
October 24th, 2016: PH: 8.1, ALK: 7.9, CA: 480, MG: 1320, SAL: 1.024, PO4: 0.75, NO3: 2
October 25th, 2016: PH: 8.0, ALK: 8.0, CA: 480, MG: 1320, SAL: 1.024, PO4: 0.25, NO3: 2
October 31st, 2016: PH: 8.0, ALK: 8.2, CA: 470, MG: 1300, SAL: 1.024, PO4: 0.15, NO3: 1
November 1st , 2016: PH: 7.9, ALK: 8.2, CA: 470, MG: 1315, SAL: 1.024, PO4: 0.10, NO3: 2

For the record, the affected corals are as follows, starting with the most severe to the least affected:

Plating Monti - bleached all over and never recovered
Yellow Porite - browned out, 99% positive its dead
PC Rainbow - bleached top to bottom covering about 75% of the coral, currently showing minor signs of recovery, but assuming it will likely die
Bubble Gum Milli - Browned out, no signs of recovery, assuming the worst
Sunset Milli - bleached from bottom to top (I just fragged this into many pieces in hopes of saving it)
Slimer - turned completely brown, has since taken on a very faint white/green color; good sign it's coming back around, time will tell
Sponge Nodes - severe color loss, partial color has since returned
Sunset Encrusting Monti - only minor browning in the center, color loss and whitening on the edges, has started to regain color
Cali Tort - Minor browning on tip and mild color loss at base, this has also started to regain some color
Birdsnest - Obvious tissue loss and browned tips, this one was doing great then all of the sudden it dropped off, no current improvement
Hulk Lepto - Minor fading/color loss in center, starting to regain some color, very slowly
Chalices - All have shown tissue loss around the edges, but no color loss in the live tissue

Those unaffected:
War Coral
Acans
RBTA's
Purple and Rainbow Stylo
Pink Pavona
Strawberry Lemonade Acro
Green Psammocora
Meteor shower Cyphastrea
Tyree Brick Cyphastrea
Burning Lepto
All euphyllia
All zoas, palys, polyps, mushrooms, softies, GSP

 

[mcarroll]

You mentioned you recently moved. Was the tank also recently moved? If so, was everything reinstalled just like before the move – especially coral colonies?

You also mention that you stripped the water before and had some side effects. I was saying it looks like you want down more or less the same road here. You crushed your nutrient levels with GFO and a pellet reactor – mostly within a day or two. That's "nothing good happening fast".

Can you post a full tank shot or two? At least one that includes the lighting system would be helpful, if possible.

 

[CodyRVA]

You mentioned you recently moved. Was the tank also recently moved? If so, was everything reinstalled just like before the move – especially coral colonies?

You also mention that you stripped the water before and had some side effects. I was saying it looks like you want down more or less the same road here. You crushed your nutrient levels with GFO and a pellet reactor – mostly within a day or two. That's "nothing good happening fast".

Can you post a full tank shot or two? At least one that includes the lighting system would be helpful, if possible.

Correct the tank was moved and yes everything was replaced. I did place several sps frags into position that were previously on a rack; knowing I was moving before I bought them. However, of the 6 frags I placed, all but 1 had encrusted before this issue arose.

I guess I'm under the wrong impression then when battling high nutrients; many suggest a massive water change to reduce said nutrients as quickly as possible? Can't say I've ever heard of anyone having problems by lowering, not depleting, nutrients quickly. My nitrates are much lower, but by no means gone. My phosphates are still wicked high, IMO.

I'll take some new pics later today, overall the tank looks great, as mentioned, the issue resides within those specific corals.

I'm running a 6 bulb ATI with 9 LEDs as moon lights. The LEDs were added only 2 weeks ago.

I still believe I'm on the right track, it just took a lot more work than I was figuring on. The affected corals that aren't dead are slowly regaining color. I'll provide an update on my chemistry as well.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Just for clarification, this tank has phosphate (1.24 ppm) and nitrate higher than yours and did not RTN at those levels:

https://reefs.com/2014-1/skeptical-reefkeeping-ix-test-kits-chasing-numbers-and-phosphate/

 

[CodyRVA]

Interesting read. I guess my question now becomes; can corals be acclimated to "dirtier" water much like light intensity? Where as my nutrients seemed to bloom over the course of weeks to months with almost no algae issues; could you in turn slowly raise your nutrient levels over time to allow the corals to acclimate? This is my best guess, considering my system has always been prone to very low nutrient levels.

It sounds plausible that a system with PO4 at say .05 ppm jumping to 1.0 ppm in a span of say 6 weeks would suffer much more comparatively to a system that gradually increased to the same amount over the course of 6 months.

Current tests showed nitrates at 1 ppm and phosphates at .1 ppm. At this point no corals have gotten worse, some have improved, others have not.[/QUOTE]

 

[mcarroll]

Yes, they do.

Check this (and related) out: Ratio of Energy and Nutrient Fluxes Regulates Symbiosis between Zooxanthellae and Corals

I would try to give up on the idea of ideal numbers for nutrients. There are none. Try to think of them as guides.

Balance and consistency are the keys.

Don't forget your corals are some of the most adaptable critters around....you just have to be consistent so they have a relatively unmoving target to adapt to.

 

[CodyRVA]

Yes, they do.

Check this (and related) out: Ratio of Energy and Nutrient Fluxes Regulates Symbiosis between Zooxanthellae and Corals

I would try to give up on the idea of ideal numbers for nutrients. There are none. Try to think of them as guides.

Balance and consistency are the keys.

Don't forget your corals are some of the most adaptable critters around....you just have to be consistent so they have a relatively unmoving target to adapt to.

Trust me I agree, I myself preach consistency over "magic numbers." I'm just referencing where my nutrients were normally at vs where they jumped to; that has been the only shift in chemistry in months.

 

[CodyRVA]

Noticing an explosion of vermitid snails and sponges, any thoughts?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Noticing an explosion of vermitid snails and sponges, any thoughts?

They certainly grew well in my tank. The vermitids became a serious pest.

 

[CodyRVA]

They certainly grew well in my tank. The vermitids became a serious pest.

10.4, no experience with sponges, wasn't sure if the sponges or the snails posed any risks; noticing large masses of pinkish looking sponges.

The vermitids came out of no where, but are becoming more populated. Leopard wrasse take care of these?

Exploring all avenues here, have been looking closer for pests. Found an all black nudi a few weeks ago, but so far nothing is standing out.