Color LEDs

[GHill762]

Do you think 2 red and 2 green for a 90 gallon would be ok? I'm using cw, nw rb and blue at the moment. Thanks.

it's not a lot, but it will help to improve your spectrum a bit. you'd be better off adding violets..

 

[Pappy]

Do you think 2 red and 2 green for a 90 gallon would be ok? I'm using cw, nw rb and blue at the moment. Thanks.

Perfect that's what I had over my 75 same dimensions.

 

[greg0385]

I love my diy full spectrum leds, i have seen blue and white leds setups, the guy who help me build mine is going with color leds after seeing mine and he has blue and white led setup.
Violets are my fav

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[Swine]

And you'll find equal number who say don't. Kessil would explain it you in detail. Maxspect and kessil have STELLER results! I've got razor that par'd with 400w halide. Please answer my question concerning the make up of white light and then explain why the need for the colors.... please?


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A white led cannot reproduce the solar irradiance of the sun. White LEDs and even full spectrum LEDs are not truly fullspectrum. Most white LEDs actually have a very high peak around the blue wavelength. Full spectrum LEDs attempt to use the red green blue evenly but it does not work that well.

So if you have the blue wavelength/intensity dominating in what we see as a white led (even though they claim to be full spectrum) there is still an imbalance in color. You can make up for these imbalances and lack in intensity by adding a red or green LED for instance.

But then it comes down to the fact that even something in the day light is going to look like this brown washed out color. So thats why we go with the T5 attinic bulbs.

I've been trying to figure out the correct balance of colors and intensities of LEDs that will look best. My problem is that I only have so many drivers and something like a deep red LED uses a much lower current then the UVs I want to use in the same circuit. So the UVs will not be bright enough or I will burn out the deep reds.

What I've been thinking:
Use a white led that is as close to full spectrum as possible. This will allow the corals and fish to get as many wavelengths (colors) as possible and they will get all of them and grow (hopefully!!!).
But now the corals dont look as pretty, so I am going to use the royal blue and UV to make them "pop" as much as possible. I have room to add a couple more LEDs so I am going to throw in some other colors to try and make up for where the full spectrum white LEDs are lacking. But I am going have somethign close to a 10:1 ratio of white to any "random" color.


ignore the attachment... I decided not to go that far in depth and dont know how to remove it...

 

[GHill762]

http://www.nano-reef.com/topic/313663-lighting-spectra-photosynthesis-and-you/

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[ReefLEDLights]

The Cree Cool White is Full Spectrum less the Red

You toss in a Neutral and you get more Yellow and Green

You Toss in a Warm and you get a little Red.

Lots is personal taste and marketing... Someone telling you your corals will look better with x light than y light.

Here is my $.02 and know I may be hitting a pinata with a hornets nest.

The Pigments in most corals reflect a different spectrum...

Based on my experience with Cree LEDs the cool White hits most of the 500-600nm without the need to add Reds or Greens.

This is a test of our XM-L High Noon Cool White. The XT-E High Noon have a similar look. The Test was done by the University of Heidelberg.

And here is the Cree Pic

Finding the right mix is key to great looks. Bins in this case really matter...

Targeting the pigments that reflect different colours is also key.

One can add extra reds or greens but its only makeup for the coral...And does little for growth.

Nuisance algae is an issue using too much Red.

The best way to decide whats best is practicable experience...See the LED light mix over a reef before you decide whats needed...

Bill

 

[Blue Tang]

Perfect that's what I had over my 75 same dimensions.

do you use optics for the green and red leds? if so at what degree? thanks

 

[Blue Tang]

Lighting spectra, Photosynthesis, and You - Lighting Forum - Nano-Reef.com Forums

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wow there is a lot of reading that I need to do. Thanks.

 

[ReefLEDLights]

Blue Tang

I've tried Reds and Greens on my system and cannot say if they improved the looks.

Skip the optics and 1 for every 24"x 18" should be more than a good start. Dimmable drivers will allow you to adjust it perfectly.

Personally after experimenting with LEDs... This "Rage Over Full Spectrum" is seriously without comparison binned LEDs over actual coral. One of our Local LFSs just swapped out his Full Spectrum Bridgelux LED Fixtures as the Wellsophyllia LPS and all SPS colonies simply looked better under binned Cree LEDs.

+1 on adding violets...Expensive but a better payback in colour improvement.

A lot of food for thought and to see a LED Mix over Coral is like test driving a car before buying.

Bill

 

[Swine]

Great article GHill and great summary ReefLED. I have never seen an article explaining what wavelengths are really being taken in. Great read for everyone interested in doing a DIY LED system.

I have bought a couple cyan, blue, green, red and deep red cree and rebel LEDs to try in different configurations in series with my 8 UV (violet really) lights. I think for those I am going to skip on optics as I will only have 2 of each color to cover my 55 gallon long tank. so that puts them in at 120 degrees but I bougth 80 degree lenses just incase. Since the colors are just for appearance and not growth I think it will be ok.

 

[Pappy]

do you use optics for the green and red leds? if so at what degree? thanks

Had 90 optics but popped off due to spotlighting.

 

[Blue Tang]

Blue Tang

I've tried Reds and Greens on my system and cannot say if they improved the looks.

Skip the optics and 1 for every 24"x 18" should be more than a good start. Dimmable drivers will allow you to adjust it perfectly.

Personally after experimenting with LEDs... This "Rage Over Full Spectrum" is seriously without comparison binned LEDs over actual coral. One of our Local LFSs just swapped out his Full Spectrum Bridgelux LED Fixtures as the Wellsophyllia LPS and all SPS colonies simply looked better under binned Cree LEDs.

+1 on adding violets...Expensive but a better payback in colour improvement.

A lot of food for thought and to see a LED Mix over Coral is like test driving a car before buying.

Bill

Thanks. How many violet leds do you think I need in a 90 gallon??

 

[ReefLEDLights]

Like an Italian Food Recipe.

There is no such thing as too much Garlic IMHO

I have 12 covering 24" and could easily double this on my personal reef.

They are not bright to the eye and less bright compared to the XT-E RB

20-24 Remember their Vf is 4.4, so 12 is the max for the Hyperon driver. Or 10 for the mean well LPC 35-700.

Bill

 

[Liquid360]

I'd ask for an explanation, assuming added color LEDs are necessary, as to why then are companies such as Kessil and Maxspect not using them and yet they're LEDs are wicked good at growing coral? They are consistently rated at the top of the game. If coral needs the extras for strong growth how are these lights so wickedly effective? I'm not being snide... I'd honestly like to know. And I do understand the diff between thriving/growing.


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[Pappy]

I'd ask for an explanation, assuming added color LEDs are necessary, as to why then are companies such as Kessil and Maxspect not using them and yet they're LEDs are wicked good at growing coral? They are consistently rated at the top of the game. If coral needs the extras for strong growth how are these lights so wickedly effective? I'm not being snide... I'd honestly like to know. And I do understand the diff between thriving/growing.


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Radions have colors and significant difference. Why is it just not ai is adding additional colors? And evolution still is not? Why are there still soooo many non dimmable or manual dimmable fixtures? Most companies are behind the times on technology and lots of others cater to the lower priced consumer hence still blue/white only and bridgelux on some fixtures. I've yet to see a fixture in person with violet and don't see need if there is rb and red which I assume covers both spectrums. These are only my opinions as I'm not an led builder but just a proud owner of a DIY Cree fixture.

 

[Liquid360]

You've just asked the same question I have. I know some have colors. Maxspect and kessil behind the times? Lol that's funny. There are people firmly planted in each camp. I believe there are simply opinions and little fact. Obviously if the pros can't agree what hope do we have? Go with what works and truth is a Radion, a kessil, a razor, all are amazing reef lights. It just irks me when posts are made stating opinions as facts. Before buying I recommend doing as I did. Email a few manufacturers and ask for a technical response as to why they used what they used. Only then can you make an educated decision.... but what the f do I know.

Radions have colors and significant difference. Why is it just not ai is adding additional colors? And evolution still is not? Why are there still soooo many non dimmable or manual dimmable fixtures? Most companies are behind the times on technology and lots of others cater to the lower priced consumer hence still blue/white only and bridgelux on some fixtures. I've yet to see a fixture in person with violet and don't see need if there is rb and red which I assume covers both spectrums. These are only my opinions as I'm not an led builder but just a proud owner of a DIY Cree fixture.

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[GHill762]

Imo manufacturers will always be behind the diy'ers.. go see what's trending in the advanced areas of diy.. in 2 years you might see it available from some companies.. nobody is saying that blue and white can't grow coral, it's more about color balance, color rendition, coral fluorescence, and overall health.. also, just because companies have fanboys doesn't make them the best option. Most people don't have a clue when it comes to led, but trust in a big name.

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[Liquid360]

You're making some pretty bad assumptions there. This DIY sense of superiority is just unfounded but actually quite amusing. That's my opinion. You don't know me well enough to make those assumptions. However I digress. I've said all I've got to say. Take care.

Imo manufacturers will always be behind the diy'ers.. go see what's trending in the advanced areas of diy.. in 2 years you might see it available from some companies.. nobody is saying that blue and white can't grow coral, it's more about color balance, color rendition, coral fluorescence, and overall health.. also, just because companies have fanboys doesn't make them the best option. Most people don't have a clue when it comes to led, but trust in a big name.

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[GHill762]

I didn't make any assumptions, especially about you.. whatever you meant by that..

It's pretty obvious that manufacturers follow diy trends. Full spectrum was diy only, now It's making its way into standard fixtures. Same goes for violet.
I'm not sure mainstream fixtures would be using anything other than cw/cb to this day if it weren't for the influence of diy hobbyists..


.02
Garrett

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[Swine]

I'm with Garrett... Manufacturers also have a bottom line to think about. They will have to go through r&d and also be buying lower quantities of the same LED thus raising their costs. They also will have to put more drivers ect into the fixture which also raises the cost. The company may very well know that they should put colored LEDs in but when they could sell several more updated versions of the product without them why would they make this new very expensive product. There could be a million reasons why they didn't go with the best design but went with a really goof design. While DIYers may not have access to expensive test equipment their theories are usually more at the forefront then lots of companies. This obviously does not mean every DIY project is the best..

But when I talk to you about my opinion which you think I am stating as fact.... It is opinion.. this is a forum, everything on here is an opinion... people are asking for advice, not a doctor's diagnosis. I did not go into detail about attaching technical documents. But if you did read the article and the source of the article garret pointed out you will see proof in what parts of the electromagnetic spectrum are important to growth.


its not to say that those manufacturers do not have a good product but it is not as flexible as DIY lighting. I can get a better color combination to make the corals look exactly how I want. I've also seen several triple puck configurations that are actually starting to use colored lights.

All in all, I think that having more flexibility and a vast true spectrum of light is gong to be most beneficial. if you have too much red light and algae growing then maybe you're feedng too much or not enough water change.
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