Diatom filter for treating external parasites?
- Thread starter Humblefish
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robert
Valuable Member
Sorry I wan't clear - not internal flow - turnover flow. How many GPH comes out of the DT into the sump?
The cannister filter can be running 1200 GPH - but if the flow from the tank is only 100 GPH - then the filtering flow is something less than 100 GPH. Through flow is going to be important as you're running on the sump as opposed to the display itself.
The cannister filter can be running 1200 GPH - but if the flow from the tank is only 100 GPH - then the filtering flow is something less than 100 GPH. Through flow is going to be important as you're running on the sump as opposed to the display itself.
svogun
Active Member
my return pump is a mag 9 (950 gallons per hour but with head loss I'm thinking its <450. I am upgrading this weekend t0 a Vectra M1 which rates at 2000gph. How that maps out with my tank I'm not sure. My return is approx 15 feet up from the sump.
robert
Valuable Member
The pressure guage will go up - the DE powder will form a brown crust and the outflow from the cannister will fall off tremendously. How many square feet is the paper filter on the nuclear? You want to coat it up pretty heavy.
On mine I used three ball valves and made a bypass which let me take the tank off the filter and recircultate water within the filter. This way I could bypass the tank switch the filter off and "bump" the coating off the paper filter - switch it back on - let it re-coat and then open the flow back to the tank...It saves on a few DE changes that way.
IN ===========X======
|
X
|
OUT==========X======
The Xs represent valves - IN/OUT from the filter - the lines are plumbing...hopes this makes sense...
On mine I used three ball valves and made a bypass which let me take the tank off the filter and recircultate water within the filter. This way I could bypass the tank switch the filter off and "bump" the coating off the paper filter - switch it back on - let it re-coat and then open the flow back to the tank...It saves on a few DE changes that way.
IN ===========X======
|
X
|
OUT==========X======
The Xs represent valves - IN/OUT from the filter - the lines are plumbing...hopes this makes sense...
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robert
Valuable Member
When the flow slows - empty, rinse the paper filter and recharge...
30 square feet is a good size - you can use up to six cups of DE with that -
You can also use powdered activated carbon with the DE powder - just add it last to the after the DE is coated up if you want to.
30 square feet is a good size - you can use up to six cups of DE with that -
You can also use powdered activated carbon with the DE powder - just add it last to the after the DE is coated up if you want to.
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robert
Valuable Member
The through flow is really key - Higher up in this thread I give the calculations on how to size the flow...
If you have the spare power heads - get them in the tank positioned on sleeping areas and dead spots - this will help make up for the lower through tank flow...
If you have the spare power heads - get them in the tank positioned on sleeping areas and dead spots - this will help make up for the lower through tank flow...
robert
Valuable Member
I flush once every 7-10 days. I "bump" (knock the coating down and let it recoat with the same powder) once between flushes.
For active Ich or velvet - I run wide open - but for other times since I have a variable speed pump and I dial back the flow and I can go longer - more like 2 weeks.
For active Ich or velvet - I run wide open - but for other times since I have a variable speed pump and I dial back the flow and I can go longer - more like 2 weeks.
robert
Valuable Member
I got velvet in this tank about a month after I setup (last march) when I added in some wrasses which I bought online. I permanently added a DE filter at that time. Before I got it all hooked up - all my tangs were on deaths door. Seriously bad - cloudy eyes - draping sheets of velvet. It began to resolve in a matter of days - took about two weeks to completely clear - and have been home free since.
Prior to this tank - I used DE on an as needed basis - hanging it off the front of the tanks many, many times. I've not run a quarantine in almost a decade...and I almost never lose a fish and I keep tangs - Achilles, Fowleri, Guttatus, Powder Blues etc.
I actually lost more fish when I did run quarantine. - But this will get me yelled at.
Prior to this tank - I used DE on an as needed basis - hanging it off the front of the tanks many, many times. I've not run a quarantine in almost a decade...and I almost never lose a fish and I keep tangs - Achilles, Fowleri, Guttatus, Powder Blues etc.
I actually lost more fish when I did run quarantine. - But this will get me yelled at.
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robert
Valuable Member
Yes - but aren't you the one who always tells those who practice management - that ich can still be present - undetected in the gills? Why shouldn't that be true after quarantine as well?
You see there are thousands of isolates of ich - velvet and many other cillates which have not been described. To pretend that any quarantine protocol is effective for all is delusional. Those who practice ich management through dilution assumme that ich or some other pathogen is present in their system everyday. This approach is works regardless of the variance in isolate life-cycle. It doesn't matter if its 72 days or 72 years. Dilution holds the pathogen below lethal concentrations continuously - and eventually the combination of filtration and the fishes own immune response yeilds a pathogen free environment.
You see there are thousands of isolates of ich - velvet and many other cillates which have not been described. To pretend that any quarantine protocol is effective for all is delusional. Those who practice ich management through dilution assumme that ich or some other pathogen is present in their system everyday. This approach is works regardless of the variance in isolate life-cycle. It doesn't matter if its 72 days or 72 years. Dilution holds the pathogen below lethal concentrations continuously - and eventually the combination of filtration and the fishes own immune response yeilds a pathogen free environment.
omykiss001
Active Member
This may be true but then again it might not. I have not come across any peer reviewed controlled studies that indicate "dilution" is effective especially in our small systems even with lots of flow what's to prevent the flow from blowing infective parasites right onto the fish. If you have a peer reviewed study I would love to see it to explore this as a possibility. This organism lives in the ocean which at the reef crest probably gets more flow than would ever be practical in our tanks. And really with at least a diatom filter or better you don't remove them just recirculate them to all areas of the environment. Again I could be wrong, but I haven't seen any evidence this method has any efficacy, one or 2 peoples experience does not prove efficacy. There is good evidence waiting at least 45 days and you'll be on the right hand side of the frequency distribution maybe 1 or 2 SD. Go 72 days and you'll be closer to 6 SD of the mean excystment point. As has been noted you could still get the very rare and has been stated nothing is 100%, but I'd rather be as far out on the distribution as possible. If the method of dilution was as effective as you claim why do zoos and aquariums still practice quarantine. These places have professionals in the field and vets on staff. They made decisions based on tested evidence. They all no there is no 100%, but they can get to >90% confidence with tested methods.
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