Did I ruin my filter???

Chrisz · May 1, 2013

I just replaced all my filters in my ro unit, I remembered you need to run out the first 10 gallons to clean the filters out but what I forgot is I was not suppose to put in the DI resin changing filter until all the other filters have been washed out.

I ran about 2 gallons through the DI resin filter before discovering my mistake, do you think it is still good?

Stage 1 sediment filter
Stage 2 carbon filter
Stage 3 Hi S membrane
Stage 4 Di resin

Trex · May 1, 2013

Hard to tell --- depends on the TDS of your tap water.

What I would do....

Test the TDS of your tap.
Test the TDS of the water post RO, but BEFORE the DI.
Test the TDS of the final water -- post DI.

Once you have those numbers (( and ideally what the listed rejection rate of your RO membrane, or the brand )) will be able to tell how things are going.

Chrisz · May 1, 2013

OK, I have

35 at the tap
0.0 at the RO
0.0 at the DI

I think I am OK, I will half to watch it in case I decreased the life of my ID filter. What color are those DI filters suppose to change to any way? I never have had one change color.

Trex · May 1, 2013

Wow, lake Superior water?
That is really low TDS.

Yeah, just keep an eye on it, but think you are fine.

I have never trusted the color changing aspect, I just go by what the TDS meter tells me. With your tap, I could see a year or 2 out of your DI resin, and 6 years for your RO membrane -- if you keep up with the prefliter/carbon block changes.

Chrisz · May 1, 2013

I am north of Duluth by about 20 miles, in the winter time the TDS drops really low, could be due to no runoff in the winter, summer it gets up to 60. The well is 300 feet deep, before I did not know any better I used the water strait from the well to fill my tank from new with out too many algae problems. My silicates are kind of high, but the PH of the water is right at 8.2 it worked almost perfect.

Trex · May 1, 2013

I wish mine was at 60 --- around 160 for Lake Michigan water.

Grew up in Bloomington, but move out of MN when I was 10. Still have family there, and my bother (( many many years ago )) went to UMD.

Chrisz · May 1, 2013

Small world!

AZDesertRat · May 2, 2013

The proper way to replace filters and membranes is as follows:

Remove all the old filters and membrane, rinse everything is warm soapy water and rinse well, reassemble all the empty housings placing two tablespoons of regular unscented bleach in the sediment filter housing then slowly turn the water on and let the housings all fill up until water starts to exit the lines. Shut it off and let it disinfect for a few minutes then open the supply again and flush the chlorinated water through until all scent of bleach is gone.
Install the new RO membrane and disconnect the line leading up from the carbon block to the RO membrane at the membrane housing end and stick this line in a bucket or the sink. Install ONLY the sediment filter and open the water supply for a couple minutes, sending the water down the drain or in the bucket to rinse away any glues or binders used in the filter making process. Next, shut the water off and install the carbon block, repeating the flushing process for a couple minutes to flush out and carbon dust or fines so they don't contaimnate or foul the RO membrane. Repeat if you have the old style dual carbons which I do not recommend.

Now, shut the water off and reconnect the 1/4" line from the carbon to the RO and turn the water back on. it will be much slower now since it is going through the membrane but make 3-5 gallons or RO water sending it to the drain to flush any antimicrobial treatments the membrane may have on it to the drain and not foul and shorten the life of the DI resin. at this point you can monitor the RO TDS and watch it falling to a final low point after the membrane becomes saturated and cleaned. I also pick the whole system up in my hands and rotate it all around to release any trapped air in the housings.

Finally install the new DI cartridge or resin and run 3 or 4 cartridge volumes of RO/DI to waste, again your TDS meter will help here and you should end up at 0 TDS.

By not following these steps you contaminate and shorten the life of whatever is downstream of the new replacement in line.

If you are not replacing the RO membrane which is usually the case may double sure you disconnect the RO housing from the carbon during the disinfection process and flushing so you do not get any bleach near the RO membrane which can damage it. I alwaysl disinfect and flush every time I replace sediment and carbon filters to be safe and it only takes a couple minutes extra time.

oceanparadise1 · May 2, 2013

AZDesertRat said:
The proper way to replace filters and membranes is as follows:

Remove all the old filters and membrane, rinse everything is warm soapy water and rinse well, reassemble all the empty housings placing two tablespoons of regular unscented bleach in the sediment filter housing then slowly turn the water on and let the housings all fill up until water starts to exit the lines. Shut it off and let it disinfect for a few minutes then open the supply again and flush the chlorinated water through until all scent of bleach is gone.
Install the new RO membrane and disconnect the line leading up from the carbon block to the RO membrane at the membrane housing end and stick this line in a bucket or the sink. Install ONLY the sediment filter and open the water supply for a couple minutes, sending the water down the drain or in the bucket to rinse away any glues or binders used in the filter making process. Next, shut the water off and install the carbon block, repeating the flushing process for a couple minutes to flush out and carbon dust or fines so they don't contaimnate or foul the RO membrane. Repeat if you have the old style dual carbons which I do not recommend.

Now, shut the water off and reconnect the 1/4" line from the carbon to the RO and turn the water back on. it will be much slower now since it is going through the membrane but make 3-5 gallons or RO water sending it to the drain to flush any antimicrobial treatments the membrane may have on it to the drain and not foul and shorten the life of the DI resin. at this point you can monitor the RO TDS and watch it falling to a final low point after the membrane becomes saturated and cleaned. I also pick the whole system up in my hands and rotate it all around to release any trapped air in the housings.

Finally install the new DI cartridge or resin and run 3 or 4 cartridge volumes of RO/DI to waste, again your TDS meter will help here and you should end up at 0 TDS.

By not following these steps you contaminate and shorten the life of whatever is downstream of the new replacement in line.

If you are not replacing the RO membrane which is usually the case may double sure you disconnect the RO housing from the carbon during the disinfection process and flushing so you do not get any bleach near the RO membrane which can damage it. I alwaysl disinfect and flush every time I replace sediment and carbon filters to be safe and it only takes a couple minutes extra time.

This needs to be a sticky some where, bc ive been in the hobby for a LONG time and this is all news to me, VERY VERY helpful, thanks Az!

scrapz · May 2, 2013

Only got rid of the first minute's water before hooking it up to the DI. Never had a problem with my water so far. Water in is always around 12-16. Out is always 0.

Mike J. · May 2, 2013

"Repeat if you have the old style dual carbons which I do not recommend." I have The BRS 5 stage "plus" system. Sediment filter, 5 micron CTO/2 carbon block, 0.6 micron +1 carbon block, then RO membrane, then DI canister. Is there something I should know about have those two carbon filters?

AZDesertRat said:
The proper way to replace filters and membranes is as follows:

Remove all the old filters and membrane, rinse everything is warm soapy water and rinse well, reassemble all the empty housings placing two tablespoons of regular unscented bleach in the sediment filter housing then slowly turn the water on and let the housings all fill up until water starts to exit the lines. Shut it off and let it disinfect for a few minutes then open the supply again and flush the chlorinated water through until all scent of bleach is gone.
Install the new RO membrane and disconnect the line leading up from the carbon block to the RO membrane at the membrane housing end and stick this line in a bucket or the sink. Install ONLY the sediment filter and open the water supply for a couple minutes, sending the water down the drain or in the bucket to rinse away any glues or binders used in the filter making process. Next, shut the water off and install the carbon block, repeating the flushing process for a couple minutes to flush out and carbon dust or fines so they don't contaimnate or foul the RO membrane. Repeat if you have the old style dual carbons which I do not recommend.

Now, shut the water off and reconnect the 1/4" line from the carbon to the RO and turn the water back on. it will be much slower now since it is going through the membrane but make 3-5 gallons or RO water sending it to the drain to flush any antimicrobial treatments the membrane may have on it to the drain and not foul and shorten the life of the DI resin. at this point you can monitor the RO TDS and watch it falling to a final low point after the membrane becomes saturated and cleaned. I also pick the whole system up in my hands and rotate it all around to release any trapped air in the housings.

Finally install the new DI cartridge or resin and run 3 or 4 cartridge volumes of RO/DI to waste, again your TDS meter will help here and you should end up at 0 TDS.

By not following these steps you contaminate and shorten the life of whatever is downstream of the new replacement in line.

If you are not replacing the RO membrane which is usually the case may double sure you disconnect the RO housing from the carbon during the disinfection process and flushing so you do not get any bleach near the RO membrane which can damage it. I alwaysl disinfect and flush every time I replace sediment and carbon filters to be safe and it only takes a couple minutes extra time.

AZDesertRat · May 2, 2013

Dual carbons are a hold over from decades ago when carbon development and technology was not what it is today. In the old days you used two GAC or granular activated carbon filters to protect the RO mmembrane from chlorine because its all we had and GAC has much less capacity than a carbon block. GAC can be exhausted in as little as 300 total gallons of normally chlorinated water, thats 60 RO/DI gallons and 240 waste gallons at the industry standard 4:1 waste ratio so they used two carbons to make it last longer.

Today the technology is head and shoulders above back then, they can blend multiple types of carbon together when forming steam extruded carbon blocks and get micron ratings in the sub micron range like 0.5 or 0.6 microns. A single 0.5 or 0.6 carbon block can last up to 20,000 gallons, 4,000 treated and 16,000 waste, of normally chlorinated OR chloraminated water without the need for multople cartridges.

The key is keeping the carbon clean so the billions of tiny microscopic pores which adsorb the chlorine and VOC's do not become fouled or plugged renedring it useless. In my experience, a properly designed RO/DI system will have a single, low micron sediment filter of the same or smaller micron size as the single solid carbon block. In my personal RO/DI I run a 0.2 micron absolute rated pleated sediment filter which has 10 the surface area and capacity as a normal spun poly sediment filter so lasts longer and filters better and beleiev it or not has lower headloss than a normal 1 micron sediment filter. The carbon block is a 0.5 micron, usually a Matrikx+1 variety then the RO membrane followed by dual DI with TDS measuring points and ball valves to draw samples after the carbon block, after the RO membrane, after the first DI and on the final RO/DI.

Many vendors still insist on a coarse sediment filter followed by a sacrificial carbon to make up for the poorly performing sediment filter followed by a second usually lower micron carbon which is doing all the work. The problem is the sediment filter is coarse and usually nominal rated so silt and colloidal materials pass right through to the first, often 5 or 10 micron micron carbon which traps some of it but in the process becomes fouled and useless and lets particles pass on to the last line of defense which is working its tail off but not getting much help from the first two filters so is pooped out quickly leading to shorter membrane life and shorter DI life, all adding up to a higher cost of ownership and operating cost over time.

Design it correctly, as a system, start to finish since every piece depends on what is in front of it, and it will last longer, perform better and cost you less in the long run. Everything you remove up front never gets to the membrane or DI so they last longer and perform better. Membranes on many systems last 18-36 months when they can easily last 10 years if kept in good working order. Add up the cost of a membrane every 2 years and the resulting DI replacements due to its lower performance and you can spend a fortune.

You also have additional head loss with each canister, cartridge, tubing and fittings you add so the efficiency or rejection rate of the RO membrane goes down, the higher the pressure the better it performs. Then you have the added cost of all the canisters, filters and fittings plus a larger bracket to hold them all. Another thing I like to mention too is you can see 40 microns with the unaided human eye, so many of the 10 micron or whatever filters are about as effective as a screen door in reality. Which would you rather having protecting your system, a 0.5 micron absolute rated sediment filter and carbon block at $20-$25 replacement cost or a 10.0 or 5.0 micron nominal rated (research the difference between absolute and nominal, it is huge), 5.0 or whatever micron carbon block and 1.0 or 0.6 micron tired as heck carbon block at about the same replacement cost? How many levels of protection does the dual 0.5 micron asbolute version offer versus the other? Once that overworked carbon fails its all over as it is foing the work of three filters plus some since the upstream micron size is so large.

Just something to think about.

This also applies to granular catalytic carbons or so called chloramine carbons which really are not needed, its the DI that is the most important piece not the carbon. A good, clean 1 micron or less carbon block is perfectly fine for the chlorine portion of chloramines, its the ammonia portion that is the biggest threat and where good DI resin and sufficient contact time are critical, not carbon.

KJAG · May 2, 2013

There should be an AZ beer fund. Always solid info

.

oceanparadise1 · May 2, 2013

id donante to the AZ beer fund!

Chrisz · May 2, 2013

Thanks, good info I never thought of the carbon filter damaging the RO membrane, probably a little too late for me this time but a good learning experience.

As I sit right now I have run 20 gallons though the sediment, carbon and RO membrane, I am showing 12 on my TDS meeter with out the DI resin filter in the mix, I was expecting 0 TDS. Do I have a problem here or should I just put the DI filter in and check my TDS again? My unfiltered water is at 35 TDS.