Does anyone do it? Seriously, do they?

[billyocean]

I will say there is nothing that can replace good husbandry and putting in the work. However, I can also say that kz coral 1 2 3 4 has helped out with color in my tank. Without the work I put in, none of it would matter though

 

[Reefer Matt]

It would be helpful if there was an independent organization that represented the hobbyists, and provided the research to guard against product claims. The industry is well represented, but us hobbyists don't seem to have anyone looking out for our best interests.

 

[areefer01]

It would be helpful if there was an independent organization that represented the hobbyists, and provided the research to guard against product claims. The industry is well represented, but us hobbyists don't seem to have anyone looking out for our best interests.

Philips commissioned a paper before they released their Coral Care Gen 2 light. Field test. Clearly there are a few companies out there that do it. Maybe not - don't know.

Probably be a short list though if we tried to keep one current.

 

[Borat]

Its actually very simply. If you cant prove the product DOESNT do it, they are not liable for false advertising. Are you going to foot the cost to prove it doesnt work?

If there are fools to buy it.. let it be!

 

[Lebowski_]

It would be helpful if there was an independent organization that represented the hobbyists, and provided the research to guard against product claims. The industry is well represented, but us hobbyists don't seem to have anyone looking out for our best interests.

Unfortunately the only organization large enough to do that, and with a big enough audience, also sells these products so would never be able to provide good research (BRS).

 

[thatmanMIKEson]

Unfortunately the only organization large enough to do that, and with a big enough audience, also sells these products so would never be able to provide good research (BRS).

they're the Biggest dealer on the block with a giant gold rope chain, and one of those gold rings that fit on 3 fingers that says BRS in diamonds! they step on all the products! wheres pookie!!!

 

[Reefer Matt]

Unfortunately the only organization large enough to do that, and with a big enough audience, also sells these products so would never be able to provide good research (BRS).

Yeah, it would have to be completely unassociated with any industry manufacturers. A membership fee would most likely be required for funding. Manufacturers sponsor social media for advertising, and we assume the product works because the promoters say so when they show off their tanks, for example.

 

[taricha]

Any claim that a hobbyist can't quantify is like a "Free Space" on your product bingo card. You get to just write that on the bottle for free .

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

One of the problems with testing is even if a supplement helped corals do something in some context, it will only help do that if there’s an existing shortage of that element (a fact that is rarely, if ever, mentioned by suppliers.)

Any sort of test would need to take that into account, which makes it incredibly complex since the tipping point of when a trace element is useful may vary coral to coral, and by which organics in any given reef aquarium are binding the trace element in question.

Still, if a manufacturer makes a claim, one would hope that it is based on something. It would not be unreasonable to demand to know what that something is.

Seachem made the remarkable admission on one of its web pages that their claim that Prime detoxifies nitrate was based on user comments that it did so, without any questioning about whether these folks even knew what level of nitrate is needed to see toxicity. Many of us pointed out how flawed that methodology is, but it shows how some of these claims arise and the level of rigor behind them.

 

[jda]

I think that stump remover was proven to remove stumps.

 

[PeterEde]

In a world where we ought to be smart enough to require evidence of something, does ANY manufacturer or supplier of reef aquarium additives actually provide evidence that the product does what it claims?

I don't mean simple ingredient claims such as contains (iron, vanadium, magnesium, etc) which is mostly meaningless without numbers (a pinch of dried ocean water meets that claim for any element), or even those with numbers (which themselves have even been wrong in some cases), but rather the more complex claims that really jazz up reefers, but for which no evidence is ever shown.

Here's a few real examples:

for intense coloration of coral
Stimulates and Optimizes Coral Growth
enhance the growth and coloration of corals
help with growth, coloration, and vitality
the end result is stronger, healthier and more colorful corals.
promotes the pink colors in corals
production of the purple/blue pigments in the soft tissue of corals.
may have a positive effect on the color of corals.
maintaining Bromide at appropriate levels is very beneficial for coral coloration and growth

The list goes on and on. It's like an arms race about supplements.

Here's what I imagine happens...

Company X claims purples are boosted by their concoction of elements.
Company Y thinks that if they don't make similar claims, who would buy it? What colors should we claim that no one else does? Hmmm. Soemthing they may have already and can look at and imagine it is getting better. Don't want a lot of returns...

I swapped to NSW 6 months ago. I was using Aquaforrest salt. I have a Foxface who from addition went very dull in colour., Since going NSW she has now got her bright yellow body back.
I am dosing an australian supplement and wonder why? This is mixed with your Calc and Alk.
The NSW I get is not off a reef it from the colder southern ocean and salinity is naturally 37ppt so I added RODI back to 35ppt.
As this is not reef water I'm wonder if the supplement is necessary? I have been thinking just adding the Alk/Calc and stopping the extra.

 

[PeterEde]

I'm yet to do an ICP since going to NSW to see if traces are higher or lower.

 

[lmfbs]

There's another step after that Randy.

Company X and Y both find an influential reefer with a beautiful reef and sponser them to spread the word on forums and instagram, and thousands of consumers suddenly feel like they NEED that product.

Still seems like good lighting, good flow, and some maturity are the main ingredients of the nicest tanks I see on here.

I first entered the hobby before social media influencers were really a thing, and it's absolutely freaking WILD to me that there are people slinging skinny teas on instagram right beside people trying to sell me a reef probiotic which will help me lose weight in 10 days make the colour on my acros out of this world

 

[jda]

It would be helpful if there was an independent organization that represented the hobbyists, and provided the research to guard against product claims. The industry is well represented, but us hobbyists don't seem to have anyone looking out for our best interests.

There are people on this board that act like this. They spend their own money and evaluate and test things to help the hobby. The do some tremendous work, but also take a lot of grief. Just look through the trolls and haters for people pointing out that Vibrant was not bacteria. This is not free in terms of money, effort or stress.

I spend $800 on the Vibrant deal. Currently about $500 into Chemiclean - just wait for the grief that I get when I post the results. My focus is on manufacturers who blatantly lie and break laws, which is different than unsubstantiated claims. There are many more besides me. I have been offered money to shut up, which was not taken.

What is needed is for a centralized org to fund these people a bit. Reef2reef could do this since they take money and their members benefit, but they never have offered a penny that I know of. A fund where 100% of the donations go to research like this would be good, but I have no expertise on to do this.

 

[Lavey29]

I'm finding a lot of air in my doritos bag too

 

[KGV]

In a world where we ought to be smart enough to require evidence of something, does ANY manufacturer or supplier of reef aquarium additives actually provide evidence that the product does what it claims?

I don't mean simple ingredient claims such as contains (iron, vanadium, magnesium, etc) which is mostly meaningless without numbers (a pinch of dried ocean water meets that claim for any element), or even those with numbers (which themselves have even been wrong in some cases), but rather the more complex claims that really jazz up reefers, but for which no evidence is ever shown.

Here's a few real examples:

for intense coloration of coral
Stimulates and Optimizes Coral Growth
enhance the growth and coloration of corals
help with growth, coloration, and vitality
the end result is stronger, healthier and more colorful corals.
promotes the pink colors in corals
production of the purple/blue pigments in the soft tissue of corals.
may have a positive effect on the color of corals.
maintaining Bromide at appropriate levels is very beneficial for coral coloration and growth

The list goes on and on. It's like an arms race about supplements.

Here's what I imagine happens...

Company X claims purples are boosted by their concoction of elements.
Company Y thinks that if they don't make similar claims, who would buy it? What colors should we claim that no one else does? Hmmm. Soemthing they may have already and can look at and imagine it is getting better. Don't want a lot of returns...

That’s the strategy of an incredibly large industry section ranging from pets, all sorts of hobbies to pharmacy products. What’s in front of the pharmacy counter is all snakeoil and sadly, is what they make their money on. These type of claims are more the norm than the exception.

 

[KGV]

Research is just incredibly expensive, difficult and time consuming. And often mistakes are made so that progress is two steps forward, one step back. There is no incentive to do this for the reefing hobby. There is barely enough to study cancer.

 

[areefer01]

There are people on this board that act like this. They spend their own money and evaluate and test things to help the hobby. The do some tremendous work, but also take a lot of grief. Just look through the trolls and haters for people pointing out that Vibrant was not bacteria. This is not free in terms of money, effort or stress.

I spend $800 on the Vibrant deal. Currently about $500 into Chemiclean - just wait for the grief that I get when I post the results. My focus is on manufacturers who blatantly lie and break laws, which is different than unsubstantiated claims. There are many more besides me. I have been offered money to shut up, which was not taken.

What is needed is for a centralized org to fund these people a bit. Reef2reef could do this since they take money and their members benefit, but they never have offered a penny that I know of. A fund where 100% of the donations go to research like this would be good, but I have no expertise on to do this.

Ignoring the fact this work is done within a forum but typically these sorts of tests you are talking about vetted or peer reviewed and usually done by those in the industry, science, dicipline, or school? Same applies to tests done by socialites.

I understand the comment on dislike and disbelief a hobbyist bring to posts but that isn't what I'm talking about since this is already known.

 

[CoastalTownLayabout]

I swapped to NSW 6 months ago. I was using Aquaforrest salt. I have a Foxface who from addition went very dull in colour., Since going NSW she has now got her bright yellow body back.

Just get a black texta and write ‘promotes intense colouration in fish’ on your collection bucket.

 

[Uncle99]

I just finished a year with dosing RS colours, ABC and D.

After a year of dosing 3ml each per day as per CA uptake, there has been no noticeable difference in size, extension or coloration in any coral.

If the coral started with great colour, it maintained that same colour and vibrancy.

I have discontinued.

While they fall short of any proof whatsoever, they do suggest that the contents matches those other minor elements found in saltwater, so it must be good…..I guess…or maybe they just got $300 bucks for what’s already in my salt mix….I think.