EFFECTIVE IMMEDIATELY: Tridents may not be sold on R2R above MSRP.

[AbjectMaelstroM]

I totally agree. However I still believe people should be able to sell these for whatever they want. If people are paying so be it. If they can't seem it here then they will elsewhere. If they don't sell. Well then they get screwed.

People can sell them for whatever they want. Just can't do it here.

Even though I have no desire or need for a Trident, some people do. Some of those people have been trying to buy one for months. Unfortunately, a portion of an already limited Trident stock that could be purchased at MSRP by those who want one is being chipped away by those whom have no need/want for one other than to make an easy quick profit. Plus these people looking to make money don't buy just one and call it done, many continously eat away at the limited supply.

This has been a great community to myself and countless others and I hate to see it being milked because it's a target rich environment. I'm not saying that it's R2Rs place to dictate what people can and can't do with their items, but they can absolutely dictate if it happens on their platform. You don't like it? It's a free market, take it to eBay/Craigslist.

OK I'm gonna get off my soapbox now.

 

[fcmatt]

I still think this is about money. Plain and simple. But the owners of this site get to make the rules and I will abide by them.

Appreciate the open discussion allowed and that is probably the most important thing in the end.

You want to create a mini hardware biz via this website/forum? Pay up like the rest. Problem solved.

 

[MnFish1]

Again this is the same if someone bought a coral in the marketplace for $100 and the next day or week listed it for $200 we would remove that as well.

Why? Im sincerely curious. Lets say I get a coral frag 'for free' and I sell it for 'the market price' whatever it is? Is that wrong? If not - what if I happen to get a great deal on a coral that the market price is $200 - but I bought it for $75 - and re-list it. Is that 'wrong'? If so - im curious as to 'why'. I get the argument with a priced (MSRP) product - but - when you're now getting into corals - and what is and isnt the market price - I'm not sure. BTW - if this is off topic please feel free to move the post or delete it - but - since its what the discussion morphed into I thought I'd ask. It seems like indeed this type of thing does become a 'slippery slope'. Which may be why you are having such a hard time determining 'whats fair'.

 

[Samina]

I am so happy R2R is enforcing this. I wish this had been done much sooner. Seems like prices have come down significantly.

I don’t think that R2R necessarily wants to control how people are selling their goods or livestock in the manner of price point. What I am gathering, is that they are trying to prevent people from essentially flipping tridents and by imposing those restrictions (MSRP pricing), they are hoping to eliminate that from happening any further on this site.

And honestly, we’ve all seen it. The same story of multiple tanks and not needing a second unit so they’re selling. But when that would sell, another for sale post would pop up or in the same thread, another buyer would inquire and the seller would just magically have another unit to sell him/her as well. A couple months ago, they were some as high as $1200. At that point, you would be lucky to find one in the dry goods section for around $900 because it would be sold so quickly. Recently, seems like $850 was the usual asking price. I know this because I tried for many months to buy one and was on numerous retailer wait lists. But I refused to pay more than what I would pay for a brand new one with a warranty.

Those threads divided the community a lot. Many people would derail the sales thread with gripes about how the asking price was ridiculous or why this seller has yet again another trident to sell. Seems like mods were on overtime when it came to cleaning up those threads. It was creating a more hostile selling forum. This decision lets us not worry about people with quick checkout fingers buying out multiples and reselling at extraordinary markups here; which in reality, was leaving people that would purchase to actually use the product without much option. So from a community standpoint, R2R made a decision to actually step up, reinforce an EXISTING rule, and draw the line. If people want to reap the “benefits” of the free market and price gouge, they have the option do so on Craigslist, eBay, or the like. Let’s keep our community strong and help each other.

 

[120reefkeeper]

I think this is a great decision by the team. This is just another reason I continue to support R2R. It’s just about doing the right thing even when others disagree.

 

[MnFish1]

There is no MSRP on corals. All vendors for Trident are restricted to $599.99.

and no matter what, the Reef2Reef hardware classifieds CLEARLY says that you cannot list items that you purchased with the intent to resell. Don’t like it? Too bad... at least you can still sell on eBay

Honestly there was no reason to make a thread about it, except to welcome conversation on the topic. Per the terms of service those Trident listings SHOULD be removed. This thread was just a public notification that they are going to enforce those terms.

I agree multiple listings should be policed. I agree R2R has the right to police them.

But - I disagree with part of your post - because - there is a difference between someone buying a trident and for whatever reason 'not needing/wanting it and reselling it' - as compared to someone who is somehow buying 1 trident a week (for example) and reselling them (the problem is that unless there is a flagrant violation - there is no way to judge 'intent'). As 'busy' as it is for 'mods' to police the rules - IMHO - thats what the job is to do - police the rules and ban people breaking the rules. Just seems to me that making another 'arbitrary' rule - doesn't really make anything fair - and it leads to confusion when it comes to selling/buying other things. What would make more sense is to say 'we're looking at those of you who are selling tridents for more than MSRP' and will be removing listings if there are repeated violations. Seems to me if I owned a websit

R2R is not a democracy.

If you really have a bug up your behind about free speech, free market, or the forum deciding not to allow people to hord and sell then go hang out on 4chan awhile and see what an unregulated forum looks like.

I would LOVE to see the naysayers reaction if they were on a live sale and missed out on a $600 coral and the buyer texted them and said "oh, I dont want it, I will sell it to you for $800".

I am in the middle on this one - but who in their right mind would pay the $800 - if it wasn't worth it 'to them'. I'm more curious @Daniel@R2R what is the logic/reasoning behind 'no flipping'. Is it that rich people will bid prices up - and then resell - or is it something else? What if someone gets a good deal on a coral and wants to 'flip it' below the market price - is that also 'disallowed'? Again - not arguing - just curious

 

[MnFish1]

The is a difference between profit and greed.
Having said that, it irritates me to see this practice.
People buy up all available stock preventing others from purchasing at retail price (which is high enough as is). Then turn around and add $200 to $400 per unit because they are the only ones that have said product.

That's not capitalism. That's greed.

I've seen tickets for shows be sold out in the first 2 seconds by bots. Those tickets then sold at ridiculous mark ups. I've had this happen to me at my shows. It hurts me. Not because I did not make my ticket sales (I did), not because said show was not sold out (it was) but because even though the show was sold out, the crowd is not what is should be and does not Look sold out. People that "could" have got tickets and attended the show could not because of this.
I would imagine it hurts company's like Neptune as well. They struggle to make enough units and a few people snatch up all the stock making it difficult to impossible for customers to get the product. They get their money but lose customers.
It's not right and is not fair.

That's my 2cents.

I purchased a Trident brand new (retail price). I hope people that engage in this practice of buying all available stock and then marking up the price get stuck with their purchases and lose their investment because it's built on taking an unfair advantage by mutating supply and demand.
$850 Trident when they retail for $599.
That's just plain old, flat out wrong.

I think you should buy what you need and let others buy what they need.

Its actually capitalism - and its called 'cornering the market'. There is a risk in doing this - because when supply meets or over exceeds that 'demand' - the people with all of those extra units will be left 'holding the bag'. So - in effect they are getting paid a premium for the risk they are taking as a seller. Most people who try to do this - end up losing their shirts - with or without rules and regulations. I'm not supporting people who buy tridents or somehow get them - but no one has answered a question I asked before - is this is so 'widespread' that mods are spending extraordinary amounts of time having to police it - where are people getting these units? They must be working their tails off - because the average person cant get 1 let alone 4 or 10. Or am I wrong?

 

[Bobby daniels]

Thank you

 

[Bobby daniels]

Thank you

 

[Shep]

to further clarify: people who bought multiple Tridents with the intent of reselling them are now Neptunes competition.

But not really, the person who bought multiple ones paid full MSRP for them, Neptune got 100% of its cut. I don't really see how that's competition.

 

[wmo168]

But it’s communism!

;Hilarious

is like government said everyone have to sell a gallon of milk at $x dollar.

 

[Daniel@R2R]

What if someone gets a good deal on a coral and wants to 'flip it' below the market price - is that also 'disallowed'?

Flipping anything here isn't allowed. That's been in our selling forum rules for years.

 

[Idoc]

That made me laugh. Does anyone still fall for the S&H boondoggle on all those ‘infomercials’? I guess I used to .... no other way to explain being the proud owner of 25 popeil pocket fisherman .... and I don’t even go fishing.

Im a sucker for info-mercials... I'm not allowed to watch them any longer... the wife put an end to all the amazing things I found, lol.

 

[robbyg]

Its actually capitalism - and its called 'cornering the market'. There is a risk in doing this - because when supply meets or over exceeds that 'demand' - the people with all of those extra units will be left 'holding the bag'. So - in effect they are getting paid a premium for the risk they are taking as a seller. Most people who try to do this - end up losing their shirts - with or without rules and regulations. I'm not supporting people who buy tridents or somehow get them - but no one has answered a question I asked before - is this is so 'widespread' that mods are spending extraordinary amounts of time having to police it - where are people getting these units? They must be working their tails off - because the average person cant get 1 let alone 4 or 10. Or am I wrong?

Capitalism is not always a good thing. Just like any other political / economic system it can be abused to the point of being unfair and cruel. As for people getting hold of 4 or 10 units, that is not as hard as you might imagine. Some people have lots of connections or they can do this with such determination that every hour they are making calls and finding new stock. If what people are saying is true I really cannot see how they can lose. For every two they sell it's like getting one for free! If at the end of the day they get stuck with four units they can sell them for $50 less than MSRP and still have a huge overall profit.

 

[naterealbig]

I have a pretty strong stance on the action R2R has taken... See my unaltered post below from an old thread on this very subject. And to be clear, i have no intention on owning a Trident until they test for nitrate and phosphate......

Again - thank you for taking a stand against greed, and intentional ill spirit...


"Yes, personal needs, financial, situation, supply/demand, blah blah.

I agree, if you can't afford it, don't complain - find a different solution. This goes for corals, cars, Triton. I am the guy that would pay $12k for an anemone, but my funds won't allow it... I'm not mad about the price - I'm motivated to do what I need to do to afford it one day.

My issue with this is not that people are reselling the equipment for a higher price. It is with the fact that for every time someone does this, they are taking something away from a person who could only afford the unit at MSRP .

It is simply ill-spirited, and goes against the culture r2r and/or the hobby is (or should be) trying to nurture. In all the threads/comments I have read, not a single person is willing to own this.... No surprise I guess."

 

[Daniel@R2R]

My issue with this is not that people are reselling the equipment for a higher price. It is with the fact that for every time someone does this, they are taking something away from a person who could only afford the unit at MSRP .

Yep!

 

[ca1ore]

Capitalism is not always a good thing. Just like any other political / economic system it can be abused to the point of being unfair and cruel. As for people getting hold of 4 or 10 units, that is not as hard as you might imagine. Some people have lots of connections or they can do this with such determination that every hour they are making calls and finding new stock. If what people are saying is true I really cannot see how they can lose. For every two they sell it's like getting one for free! If at the end of the day they get stuck with four units they can sell them for $50 less than MSRP and still have a huge overall profit.

I haven’t really paid much attention to the auctions selling them above MSRP. Have they been selling at the inflated prices I wonder. Getting somebody to actually pay a premium is much harder than just listing it that way. Sounds like supply is finally catching up to demand, so any arbitrage opportunities are likely mostly gone.

 

[Jeeperz]

I like this action. This is a club where you have to register, can be kicked out at the discretion of the staff, etc... Follow the rules or get banned. It's understandable and I applaud it. I kinda view it as I do my own home. In my house, my rules, in my house, it's a communist country and I dictate the rules. Don't like them, there's the door. Same here.

This reminds me of the Elmo dolls and beanie babies fad where people bought up stock and resold at insane prices. It is just morally wrong, and another of many reasons I don't hang out with other humans more than necessary.

 

[WallyB]

I was really EXCITED when the New of the Trident came out as available to public, beyond the initial small user Trial..

Really wanted an Alk Monitor since that is something that I've messed up too many times.

I love Neptune system products which I have much of from the Original Classic models.

So I did get onto an Wait list as soon as the Trident came out. Really wanted one, in reasonable time.
That wait was too long, and I lost the confidence in Neptune (Felt like a bad roll out, and felt to me like on purpose), not intentional, but caused exactly this over pricing re-sale flip issue.

They called me a couple weeks ago that it was my Turn for a Trident. TOO LATE!!

I turned it down politely, since in all that waiting time....I designed, and built my own DIY Alk Monitor, better than a Trident if you just want Alk.

Saved a ton of money (having to upgrade Controllers). Learned a lot. Have a Standalone ALK Monitor that will do all my 3 tanks, and planning to build portable versions in the future.

Thanks Neptune for the delays, and the painful Product roll out.

 

[Variant]

I see the positive intent here but I hope the R2R staff really thought through the legal repercussions of this decision given that it is a decision that makes R2R less of a marketplace facilitator that facilitates transactions and more of a distributor type role. Its like hoe Uber cannot legally force drivers to wotk certain hours of the day or else the are no longer contractots but employees.

On top of the implications of being an overly inbolvef marketplace facilitator, there are serious anti competiton law implications here.

Just some thoughts as someone who lives and breathes compliance for a major company.

 

[TheOne]

www.saltwaterquarium.com just released 200 of these and they sold out in 30 minutes. I for one am so glad I don't have to see a post every 30 minutes now saying that someone accidentally bought two and need to sell their extra one for $850. Good riddance.