Emperor angel sick? If so what is it.

[ddc0715]

Ok this will be a long post because we love this fish.. we have had the emperir angel for about 1yr. Over the past few months my wife wants to know why he looks like faded bluejeans..i do not know.

I pulled him and Qt him about 3 months ago and treated him with p.pro, ich-x, there was no change in him after a few weeks. So i wrote him off and changing colors and put him back in my dt.

More time goes by (weeks) with no improvement. He still looks like faded bluejeans. I dosed my dt with p,pro this time cause i got ticked because i could not catch him. Well i noticed he was a bit more active over the following days. And saw him flashing/rubbing on my frag rack magnet. I have ordered some poly lab medic, and more p pro as a precation to treat my dt.

I have ruled out velvet because this has been a concern for months. Velvet kills quick. I have ruled out ich cause it does not look like ich. Opinions needed.is he just change colors?.

Food and water parms are.
Lrs seaweed, lrs reef and fish frenzy,san francisco angelfish food all melted down and remixed with vitamin c and mysis shrimp and re frozen into cubes.

 

[Bleigh]

Do you have any pictures? Sounds like some before and after may be helpful.

 

[ddc0715]

Do you have any pictures? Sounds like some before and after may be helpful.

Pics not showing up?

 

[Bleigh]

They are now! ;Happy

 

[ddc0715]

 

[Gernader]

Based on your water parameters, I noticed you have ammonia and you need to fix this right away. It should be ALWAYS at 0.00, same for nitrites. Not exactly sure what the problem is, but try to reduce the ammonia and see if your fish gets better.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Water change, treat for velvet and fin and tail rot ( Melafix may work well) and temperature up to 79 degrees. Add oxygen if you can.
What are you feeding?

Requires Songe, greens and amino fats. Add both garlic and liquid vitamins to its' foods
I recommend at minimum:
LRS food
Rods foods
aquid
Plankton
clam on a shell
mysis shrimp
Nori algae sheets
Ocean nutrition angel formula

 

[ddc0715]

Based on your water parameters, I noticed you have ammonia and you need to fix this right away. It should be ALWAYS at 0.00, same for nitrites. Not exactly sure what the problem is, but try to reduce the ammonia and see if your fish gets better.

Agreed amo and nitrite / nitrate levels are improtant to keep at 0
But i also known that my current levels are not dangours at all. .05 ammo and nitrate at 0 is great i do not want them all at zero. And my ammo was so close to that 0 color i just guessed a bit above 0.according to my red seas test kit. So I don't think this is water parms related. 0's across the board is also bad

 

[ddc0715]

Water change, treat for velvet and fin and tail rot ( Melafix may work well) and temperature up to 79 degrees. Add oxygen if you can.
What are you feeding?

Requires Songe, greens and amino fats. Add both garlic and liquid vitamins to its' foods
I recommend at minimum:
LRS food
Rods foods
aquid
Plankton
clam on a shell
mysis shrimp
Nori algae sheets
Ocean nutrition angel formula

I only use good food LRS for all.
First time i QT him i hit him with cupermine, marine Melafix, ichx, and p-pro. Thanks tho. Im becoming a anti copper supporter. LoL

 

[GoldeneyeRet]

Mine temporarailly faded a bit when he started to transition. Yours is starting to change, perhaps that's it.

Ammonia should be zero. That can cause some stress which could cause fading.

Diet can cause fading. LRS is great but he needs some nori every day. Selcon or similar is a good idea.

Looks like you hit him with tons of meds but keep an eye out for flukes or bacterial Infection just in case.

 

[GoldeneyeRet]

Ok I reread and saw he is flashing.

Check for flukes with a FWD. I know you used prazi, did you do a follow up after 6 days? Did you treat all fish or your whole display? Prazir resistant flukes are becoming common...

 

[pcon]

LRS isn't the best food for every fish. I would recommend including an angelfish specific preparation or at least an angelfish vitamin/nutrient additive with the food. I like SFB Angel and Butterfly, Hikari Mega-Marine Angel, Ocean Nutrition's Pygmy Angel Formula. I hear good things about Brightwell's Angelixir I haven't tried it yet myself but have some coming in. As others say lots of vitamins, and fatty acids are essential for angelfish health. There is good debate in the community and among professional aquarists about the necessity of including sponge in angelfish diets, however when seeing poor coloration or health its an easy place to start. I am a strong proponent of offering sponge daily.

 

[ddc0715]

Thanks all great advice. Here is what i feed my dt. Its a home- mix of the following.
Lrs reef frenzy
Lrs fish frenzy
Mysis shrimp
Diced up shrimp
Sfb angel cubes

I melt it all and then add brightwell vitamin c to the mix, then refreeze.

I feed the DT two cubes of that mix, a entire sheet of lrs brand seaweed and a dash of new life spectrum marine pellets.
Today i bought some ocean brand formula two. Other than changing brands, im sure the debate could rage on for awhile about fish food brands an over all fish health.

As for the flukes. And a FWD. i was planning on trying that this week. I try and treat my dt as a whole. And only qt fish that turn really really Really bad ,really quick. But i dose my dt with p- pro this last time and it appeared to help him out a bit with his colors, i have more arriving today along with poly labs medic. Im going to hit the dt with it. Ive read alot of good thing about that stuff.

 

[ddc0715]

Well the 8 min fresh water dip has been done. It appesrs to have removed Some stuff the water was not clean when he exited. We will see.

 

[GoldeneyeRet]

Did you find any flukes? The fwd wont cure them, just provide temporary relief and a confirmation of flukes so you can treat appropriately.

 

[Terri Caton]

Thanks all great advice. Here is what i feed my dt. Its a home- mix of the following.
Lrs reef frenzy
Lrs fish frenzy
Mysis shrimp
Diced up shrimp
Sfb angel cubes

I melt it all and then add brightwell vitamin c to the mix, then refreeze.

I feed the DT two cubes of that mix, a entire sheet of lrs brand seaweed and a dash of new life spectrum marine pellets.
Today i bought some ocean brand formula two. Other than changing brands, im sure the debate could rage on for awhile about fish food brands an over all fish health.

As for the flukes. And a FWD. i was planning on trying that this week. I try and treat my dt as a whole. And only qt fish that turn really really Really bad ,really quick. But i dose my dt with p- pro this last time and it appeared to help him out a bit with his colors, i have more arriving today along with poly labs medic. Im going to hit the dt with it. Ive read alot of good thing about that stuff.

I really like the Medic. Best water conditioner I've used. Will it cure your fish? No. Will it make things easier? Yes.

 

[ddc0715]

Ok update on my adolescent emperor angel. hes still alive nothing new there. I gave him a fresh water dip a few days ago. Seen a bit of improvement in his colors, but he is still flashing in the late evenings, still eating good, but still faded out. i gave him a preoxide dip today and qted him right after the dip.im going to hit him with API E.M. Erythromycin for a few days

 

[ddc0715]

Ohhhh man. .....
So Gave him a peroxide dip today and while in the dip he crapped a ton all green. I moved him from the dip to the qt with some api em erythromycin
because he still has been flashing. About two hrs later i noticed this long white string about 5" long. What does this tell me? He already took a massive green dump in the dip. Whats this white string coming from him less than an hour later.

 

[GoldeneyeRet]

i am confused by your course of action. you seem to be randomly subjecting the fish to a variety of treatments but none of them are complete or adequate treatments for anything.

lets start at the top.

he is in a QT it appears?

You dosed prazipro, looks like twice. Did you use recommended dosage and repeat in 6 days?

You have done at least 2 Fresh water dips. Did you look closely for any flukes? Did you dip in a black container and use a magnifying glass to check for flukes? Thats the whole point of the dip. If you did prazi as directed, and the FWD shows flukes still present you may have prazi resistent flukes and need an alternate treatment.

You mention ichx and medic, neither will treat anything effectively. You have ruled out ich and velvet, what made you rule those out without treatment? I agree that they are not prime suspects, but not ruled out either.

H2O2 you used. hydrogen peroxide may help, but its not a proven method and should be reserved for experienced people who know what they are doing. It coud be harmful and dosages and protocols are not established.

Now you are using erythromycin. not a great antibiotic, except in the case of eye infections. If you go ABX, use something effective like NFG or spectogram.

You mention ammonia being present. angels are very sensitive to ammonia and it needs to be zero.

the white stringy poo your seeing now can indicate intestinal parasites, which could explain the faded color.

in order, I would:
1. fix ammonia issue immediately.
2. deal with flukes. Persistent flashing suggests flukes or velvet, the fact it got better after the FWD suggests flukes to me. FWD in black container, carefully looking for flukes with mag glass to confirm, if the fish isnt too weak. Treat for flukes if they are confirmed OR you dont think the fish can handle another dip. treatment options would be a proper prazi treatment (prazipro or GC) OR a fenbendazole bath. I would go with fenbendazole baths and just skip the fWD if my fish had gone through so much.
3. begin treatment for intestinal parasites. Food soak with focus mixed with GC or Fenbendazole+metronidazole for at least 14 days, twice a day. This can be concurrent to other treatments.
4. use antibiotics if needed. Rally bath could help after fluke treatment and before ABX if you need it. use a good antibiotic. NFG or spectogram. this can be done after fluke treatments.
5. treat for velvet if no improvement OR immediately if velvet becomes suspected.

specific instructions for each step can be found in the stickies if you need help. Or, just ask here for any procedure you have questions about.

Good Luck

 

[ddc0715]

Well, my orginal post was an inquiry as to the possible problem with the fish so there could be a one time treatment for his problem. BUTTT no one seems to know...since there is no known issue hes suffering from.