Getting rid of ICH by keeping fish for a while in freshwater

[vetteguy53081]

We talked about my bamboo shark a while back then when i had an outbreak. The bamboo can't take hyposalinity, if it could, i just would dumpe every fish in my Main tank, remove the macroalgaes there and put them in the second tank, which then could stay fallow and to hyposalinity in the main tank with all fish in it.

With the shark, As mentioned (hope i did), you can use general cure with it safely as well as Ruby Rally Pro but ruby will Not address ich effectively

 

[KilianSP]

With the shark, As mentioned (hope i did), you can use general cure with it safely as well as Ruby Rally Pro but ruby will Not address ich effectively

I used Ruby Rally reef on the shark tank for 8 days. As said it looked like i beat it, but now after a few months it is back again.
Thats the reason i need the other big tank clean, so i can do TTM and Dips. Now i can't do that, because i don't have a clean tank to put them in afterwards.
So i want to get one tank clean, fight with ruby reef the main tank in hope no more fish dies, till the other tank is clean, then TTM and put them in the clean tank which is big enough to house the shark for 76days till the main tank OS also clean after fallow period.

 

[threebuoys]

I used Ruby Rally reef on the shark tank for 8 days. As said it looked like i beat it, but now after a few months it is back again.
Thats the reason i need the other big tank clean, so i can do TTM and Dips. Now i can't do that, because i don't have a clean tank to put them in afterwards.
So i want to get one tank clean, fight with ruby reef the main tank in hope no more fish dies, till the other tank is clean, then TTM and put them in the clean tank which is big enough to house the shark for 76days till the main tank OS also clean after fallow period.

Ruby Reef recommends that Ruby Rally Pro should be used with KICK-ICH (another Ruby Reef product) to target ich. Kick-ich does not contain copper. I've found one reference that Kick-ich contains "5-nitroimidazole reagents in a neutral aqueous solution". I have no idea if that chemical has been vetted as an effective treatment. As discussed by others, Copper Power, CopperSafe or hyposalinity are the most reliable treatments typically available today. Cupramine is also reliable, but more difficult to dose. Chlorquine Phosphate is another possibility but, since the pandemic, it has been removed from most markets.

 

[KilianSP]

Ruby Reef recommends that Ruby Rally Pro should be used with KICK-ICH (another Ruby Reef product) to target ich. Kick-ich does not contain copper. I've found one reference that Kick-ich contains "5-nitroimidazole reagents in a neutral aqueous solution". I have no idea if that chemical has been vetted as an effective treatment. As discussed by others, Copper Power, CopperSafe or hyposalinity are the most reliable treatments typically available today. Cupramine is also reliable, but more difficult to dose. Chlorquine Phosphate is another possibility but, since the pandemic, it has been removed from most markets.

I think i didn't bought Kick-Ich because it wasn't sure to be safe for sharks.
And i also got catfish in this tank, so it is not easy with medication.
And it would be a disaster to crash a cycled shark tank. I would never get the tank back running without getting an ammonia Spike then gallons of starter bacteria.
So i want to play it really safe and try to brake the life cycle by going fallow, then TTM And then but them in the clear tank, so the main tank can also go fallow.

I used so much medication in this tank, i got genetic defects in some macroalgaes, they don't grow like before and in different shapes and that is a warning sign for me to stop using any more meds.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Sorry - I was on the road all day, lots of posts here, so I just wanted to add that chloroquine can be used to treat tanks for ich that have sharks in them. Another option is to run the tank fallow with just the shark for 60 days and treat the bony fish in another tank.
Jay

 

[KilianSP]

Sorry - I was on the road all day, lots of posts here, so I just wanted to add that chloroquine can be used to treat tanks for ich that have sharks in them. Another option is to run the tank fallow with just the shark for 60 days and treat the bony fish in another tank.
Jay

Running the tank only with the shark in it for 60 days fallow, would that eradicate ICH in this tank then?

If i would do it this way and Isolation the shark, can i do a hyposalinity on the other tank With the boney fish?
Fish in the other tank then would be:
-Mollys
-Green Spotted Pufferfish (Fluvatilis)
-Colombian Sharks (ariopsis seemanni)
-Valenciennea strigata
-cheatodon kleinii

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Running the tank only with the shark in it for 60 days fallow, would that eradicate ICH in this tank then?

If i would do it this way and Isolation the shark, can i do a hyposalinity on the other tank With the boney fish?
Fish in the other tank then would be:
-Mollys
-Green Spotted Pufferfish (Fluvatilis)
-Colombian Sharks (ariopsis seemanni)
-Valenciennea strigata
-cheatodon kleinii

Yes, velvet can infect sharks, but not ich. 60 days fallow at 81 degrees will work, 75 days if the water is cooler.
All of those bony fishes can handle hyposalinity, 3 of them can handle pure freshwater.
Beware - green puffers are really nippy (don’t trust them around sharks) and A. semani get large.
Jay

 

[KilianSP]

Yes, velvet can infect sharks, but not ich. 60 days fallow at 81 degrees will work, 75 days if the water is cooler.
All of those bony fishes can handle hyposalinity, 3 of them can handle pure freshwater.
Beware - green puffers are really nippy (don’t trust them around sharks) and A. semani get large.
Jay

Ok, i am asuming it is ICH, since the fish died after 2-3Weeks after first sign of infection. I freshwater Dipped the Pufferfish which died last time (he was alive and it's first week of infection) nothing came of from the fish, the white spots stayed on the fish.
I got some days where he had for 2 days spots, then no spots, but on his last days he had the spots for over a week on his fins.

The butterfly fiah hat white spots on his head and fins, so i am very sure it is ICH.
What are your thoughts on this?

The green spotted puffer won't ever get back in the same tank as the shark.
As for the seemanni, i know they get big, already planning on a bigger tank to give the shark more space, but i want to rehome them, but it is hard to find a new home, so the will probably stay then in the second tank, which is 250x70 cm and 40cm high, it's a very long frag tank till i find a new home.
For the main tank i only want to keep the shark in there, with the butterfly and goby and mollys.

As for the goby, i got in the frag tank Sand from 2-3mm, would that be too rough for him?
And can i go low to 1.008 in hypo, just to be sure i am consistently under 1.009 and what salinity in ppt is 1.009 or 1.008 at 25 degrees Celsius? I got the hanna salinity checker, calibrated, but it Shows it is of by 0,5ppt. Checker says 33ppt, ICP is 33,57ppt, thats why i want to go with 1.008

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Ok, i am asuming it is ICH, since the fish died after 2-3Weeks after first sign of infection. I freshwater Dipped the Pufferfish which died last time (he was alive and it's first week of infection) nothing came of from the fish, the white spots stayed on the fish.
I got some days where he had for 2 days spots, then no spots, but on his last days he had the spots for over a week on his fins.

The butterfly fiah hat white spots on his head and fins, so i am very sure it is ICH.
What are your thoughts on this?

The green spotted puffer won't ever get back in the same tank as the shark.
As for the seemanni, i know they get big, already planning on a bigger tank to give the shark more space, but i want to rehome them, but it is hard to find a new home, so the will probably stay then in the second tank, which is 250x70 cm and 40cm high, it's a very long frag tank till i find a new home.
For the main tank i only want to keep the shark in there, with the butterfly and goby and mollys.

As for the goby, i got in the frag tank Sand from 2-3mm, would that be too rough for him?
And can i go low to 1.008 in hypo, just to be sure i am consistently under 1.009 and what salinity in ppt is 1.009 or 1.008 at 25 degrees Celsius? I got the hanna salinity checker, calibrated, but it Shows it is of by 0,5ppt. Checker says 33ppt, ICP is 33,57ppt, thats why i want to go with 1.008

Some of the spots on the puffer’s fins are too large to be ich though…..

1.008 is fine for all of the fish except the goby, I’m not sure about that. It is a VERY fine line - 1.010 is too high and 1.008 can be too low for some fish - ugh.
Jay

 

[vetteguy53081]

Ok, i am asuming it is ICH, since the fish died after 2-3Weeks after first sign of infection. I freshwater Dipped the Pufferfish which died last time (he was alive and it's first week of infection) nothing came of from the fish, the white spots stayed on the fish.
I got some days where he had for 2 days spots, then no spots, but on his last days he had the spots for over a week on his fins.

The butterfly fiah hat white spots on his head and fins, so i am very sure it is ICH.
What are your thoughts on this?

The green spotted puffer won't ever get back in the same tank as the shark.
As for the seemanni, i know they get big, already planning on a bigger tank to give the shark more space, but i want to rehome them, but it is hard to find a new home, so the will probably stay then in the second tank, which is 250x70 cm and 40cm high, it's a very long frag tank till i find a new home.
For the main tank i only want to keep the shark in there, with the butterfly and goby and mollys.

As for the goby, i got in the frag tank Sand from 2-3mm, would that be too rough for him?
And can i go low to 1.008 in hypo, just to be sure i am consistently under 1.009 and what salinity in ppt is 1.009 or 1.008 at 25 degrees Celsius? I got the hanna salinity checker, calibrated, but it Shows it is of by 0,5ppt. Checker says 33ppt, ICP is 33,57ppt, thats why i want to go with 1.008

I too dont believe ich based on size of dots why pic requested. Butterflies susceptible to lympho which looks like cauliflower rather than ich dots

 

[vetteguy53081]

Ruby Reef recommends that Ruby Rally Pro should be used with KICK-ICH (another Ruby Reef product) to target ich. Kick-ich does not contain copper. I've found one reference that Kick-ich contains "5-nitroimidazole reagents in a neutral aqueous solution". I have no idea if that chemical has been vetted as an effective treatment. As discussed by others, Copper Power, CopperSafe or hyposalinity are the most reliable treatments typically available today. Cupramine is also reliable, but more difficult to dose. Chlorquine Phosphate is another possibility but, since the pandemic, it has been removed from most markets.

Not effective. It is literally another Paraguard and similar product. It will help offer relief but not a cure nor are there much positive reviews about its effectiveness.

 

[KilianSP]

I too dont believe ich based on size of dots why pic requested. Butterflies susceptible to lympho which looks like cauliflower rather than ich dots

But lympho isn't killing the fish, am i wrong?

 

[KilianSP]

I too dont believe ich based on size of dots why pic requested. Butterflies susceptible to lympho which looks like cauliflower rather than ich dots

But lympho isn't killing the fish, am i wrong

Some of the spots on the puffer’s fins are too large to be ich though…..

1.008 is fine for all of the fish except the goby, I’m not sure about that. It is a VERY fine line - 1.010 is too high and 1.008 can be too low for some fish - ugh.
Jay

I am not sure anymore what i am dealing with. Today the shark has this dots/bumps all over his Body. Looking like blackheads.

His Clasper are Red.

I really don't know what i am dealing with right now.

 

[vetteguy53081]

But lympho isn't killing the fish, am i wrong

I am not sure anymore what i am dealing with. Today the shark has this dots/bumps all over his Body. Looking like blackheads.

His Clasper are Red.

I really don't know what i am dealing with right now.

Lympho is viral and will not kill. Generally the spots you mention are related to stress or a systematic infection often associated with poor water quality (often high nitrates)
If treatment required, It would be Seachem Neomyacin but proper id and water quality verification is the first recourse.

 

[KilianSP]

Lympho is viral and will not kill. Generally the spots you mention are related to stress or a systematic infection often associated with poor water quality (often high nitrates)
If treatment required, It would be Seachem Neomyacin but proper id and water quality verification is the first recourse.

Nitrates around 70ppm in the shark tank right now.
In the other tanks around 5-10ppm
The goby (shark tank) has white spots

 

[vetteguy53081]

Nitrates around 70ppm in the shark tank right now.
In the other tanks around 5-10ppm
The goby (shark tank) has white spots

Yeah- that'll do it- you will need to get nitrates down- Not favorable for any sharks

 

[KilianSP]

Yeah- that'll do it- you will need to get nitrates down- Not favorable for any sharks

Noted that.

But what is then wrong with the other fish?
Shark was fine yesterday and the days before.
I am not sure about fish dying after 3 weeks because of Bad water quality.

Should i still go the route, Isolation the shark and let his tank go fallow and other fish doing hypo?

I am Sure that if the shark symptoms are from Bad water quality or Stress, it's more from Stress from the colombian sharks. They stay close to the shark but are swimming around all day there

 

[vetteguy53081]

Noted that.

But what is then wrong with the other fish?
Shark was fine yesterday and the days before.
I am not sure about fish dying after 3 weeks because of Bad water quality.

Should i still go the route, Isolation the shark and let his tank go fallow and other fish doing hypo?

I am Sure that if the shark symptoms are from Bad water quality or Stress, it's more from Stress from the colombian sharks. They stay close to the shark but are swimming around all day there

I suspect water in general and if nitrate is that elevated- revisit the ammonia level. Not sure how youre testing (kit) but water quality is vital. Most fish can tolerate higher levels opposed to sharks.
Need to see updated pics of fish

 

[KilianSP]

I suspect water in general and if nitrate is that elevated- revisit the ammonia level. Not sure how youre testing (kit) but water quality is vital. Most fish can tolerate higher levels opposed to sharks.
Need to see updated pics of fish

I am testing with salifert and doing ICPs sometimes.
I tested ammonia at the first issue i had over a year ago (Bamboo shark with flukes), it wasn't measurable back then, tank is established since 1,5 years.
I change 400l (1300l system) tomorrow and throw my seneye reef in the shark tank, after i removed all other fish in the other tank.

If other fish can tolerate more nitrates, why do they die instead of the shark? And why even in other tanks too with lower nitrate levels.
What are the white spots i see on the fish which dies later?
And this happens since my first Post here (a year ago) frequently. I add prazipro, then all are fine for a month and then back to the same symptoms. Last time i did 6 rounds of prazipro and after that i did 6 round of ruby rally reef pro, everything was fine for 2 months and now i am back in the same Situation, but now not only in the main tank, now i habe it in 2 other tanks aswell.
If the waterquality would be the main issue, why does it get better if doing medications where i turn off UVC, Ozone and take the skimmer cup of for weeks?

I am totaly desperate right now, when the puffer died i got to the point where i desided just to let them all die.
But now i am back just for 1 more round of fighting, if that doesn't help i don't know what i can do more.

 

[KilianSP]

I suspect water in general and if nitrate is that elevated- revisit the ammonia level. Not sure how youre testing (kit) but water quality is vital. Most fish can tolerate higher levels opposed to sharks.
Need to see updated pics of fish

Here a picture of the whole System, maybe you find something what could be wrong or Help in the Situation.