Getting rid of ICH by keeping fish for a while in freshwater

[vetteguy53081]

I am testing with salifert and doing ICPs sometimes.
I tested ammonia at the first issue i had over a year ago (Bamboo shark with flukes), it wasn't measurable back then, tank is established since 1,5 years.
I change 400l (1300l system) tomorrow and throw my seneye reef in the shark tank, after i removed all other fish in the other tank.

If other fish can tolerate more nitrates, why do they die instead of the shark? And why even in other tanks too with lower nitrate levels.
What are the white spots i see on the fish which dies later?
And this happens since my first Post here (a year ago) frequently. I add prazipro, then all are fine for a month and then back to the same symptoms. Last time i did 6 rounds of prazipro and after that i did 6 round of ruby rally reef pro, everything was fine for 2 months and now i am back in the same Situation, but now not only in the main tank, now i habe it in 2 other tanks aswell.
If the waterquality would be the main issue, why does it get better if doing medications where i turn off UVC, Ozone and take the skimmer cup of for weeks?

I am totaly desperate right now, when the puffer died i got to the point where i desided just to let them all die.
But now i am back just for 1 more round of fighting, if that doesn't help i don't know what i can do more.

Begin with testing your water before it goes into tank to see if it already high in nitrate and/or phosphate. I have a fellow in Portugal in similar situation and realized his phosphate before mixing salt was 12 and Nitrate at 61. Some fish can tolerate higher nitrates- puffer would not be one of them.
When treating, I assume you have removed all carbon?
In addition you can run skimmer as normal.
To confirm , are you seeing any of these with your fish when youre done treating:
Loss of appetite
Heavy breathing
scratching
darting across tank
swimming at surface or into water flow path
lethargic behavior or hanging on bottom?

 

[KilianSP]

Begin with testing your water before it goes into tank to see if it already high in nitrate and/or phosphate. I have a fellow in Portugal in similar situation and realized his phosphate before mixing salt was 12 and Nitrate at 61. Some fish can tolerate higher nitrates- puffer would not be one of them.
When treating, I assume you have removed all carbon?
In addition you can run skimmer as normal.
To confirm , are you seeing any of these with your fish when youre done treating:
Loss of appetite
Heavy breathing
scratching
darting across tank
swimming at surface or into water flow path
lethargic behavior or hanging on bottom?

Last ICP from my RO water (i week ago)

Yes i removed carbon while medication, i use it after medication.

I only got loss of apetite while dosing Prazipro, after or without medication, no problem, all are eating. While using Ruby reef, no loss in apetite.

As for twitching and yawning, i have it before treating. It gets more intense when i add prazipro or ruby reef (Not Boot at the same time medicating) but it goes away after a few hours and then they are fine, like nothing happend.
I got heavy breathing only on the butterfly that died, the porcupine was more like no Energy to breath, it was slowly breathing.

Here are the water parameters of last week (phosphate don't get measured, it gets calculated by phosphorous) Alk, Ca, Mg, No3 Match with my Salifert Test very accurate.
Only phosphate is of. I got with salifert 0,5mg phosphate. I think my phosphate in the ICP is so high, because i feed the tank, then forgot to take the water Samples and then took it later, so alot of food went in there. I the salifert in this case more than the ICP, and my tank doesn't look like 5mg Phosphate at all.

And thats what i measured that day with salifert before feeding

 

[KilianSP]

@vetteguy53081 shark is now looking better.
Less blackheads and no Red clasper anymore.
Didn't do the waterchange yet.
Other fish in the tank are same as yesterday. No white spots.
Ecxept 3 white spots on the gobys tail, are there since a few days, didn't get more or less.

 

[KilianSP]

@vetteguy53081 @Jay Hemdal
Now i catched all fish out of the main tank, only he shark is left in there.

I let it clear a little then do a big waterchange.

All other fish are now in the big frag tank, where i will do hyposalinity

When should i start hypo? For now only the goby has his 3 white spots.
Should i gibe them 1 day to chill down or start right now?
And how fast should i drop the salinity?
Anything else i i should do on the shark tank, or just let it run for 76 days till it is fallow of ICH?

 

[vetteguy53081]

@vetteguy53081 @Jay Hemdal
Now i catched all fish out of the main tank, only he shark is left in there.

I let it clear a little then do a big waterchange.

All other fish are now in the big frag tank, where i will do hyposalinity

When should i start hypo? For now only the goby has his 3 white spots.
Should i gibe them 1 day to chill down or start right now?
And how fast should i drop the salinity?
Anything else i i should do on the shark tank, or just let it run for 76 days till it is fallow of ICH?

You can begin hypo in fresh tank when ready

 

[KilianSP]

You can begin hypo in fresh tank when ready

I need help!
I started hypo yesterday. Lowered salinity down to 23.5ppt over 24hrs.
Now the butterfly fish is half dead, fast breathing, red head. Pufferfish also knockout.
Mollys and goby are fine. Colombiansharks are also knockout, and it looks like their muscus is coming of and the are scratching.

Seneye reef doesn't Show ammonia nor the salifert test kit.
Alkalinity is at 7.4 and ph is at 8.0 right now.

Should i stop lowering salinity?
Or do they now got sick because of the Stress?

 

[vetteguy53081]

I need help!
I started hypo yesterday. Lowered salinity down to 23.5ppt over 24hrs.
Now the butterfly fish is half dead, fast breathing, red head. Pufferfish also knockout.
Mollys and goby are fine. Colombiansharks are also knockout, and it looks like their muscus is coming of and the are scratching.

Seneye reef doesn't Show ammonia nor the salifert test kit.
Alkalinity is at 7.4 and ph is at 8.0 right now.

Should i stop lowering salinity?
Or do they now got sick because of the Stress?

Yes as hypo and TTM doers cause stress with some fish. The mucus you see is protective slime coat which means they are not responding positively to hypo, the reason i recommend meds.

 

[KilianSP]

Yes as hypo and TTM doers cause stress with some fish. The mucus you see is protective slime coat which means they are not responding positively to hypo, the reason i recommend meds.

But why do the colombian sharks react so hard? Since they are brackish, shouldn't they be fine at 23ppt?

I also added my big airpump to the sump, just in case the the surface Agetation from the wavemakers isn't enough.

So should i wait with lowering the salinity?
I don't have meds on hand right now and then there is the puffer and columbian sharks, so no copper

 

[vetteguy53081]

But why do the colombian sharks react so hard? Since they are brackish, shouldn't they be fine at 23ppt?

I also added my big airpump to the sump, just in case the the surface Agetation from the wavemakers isn't enough.

So should i wait with lowering the salinity?
I don't have meds on hand right now and then there is the puffer and columbian sharks, so no copper

If fish are reacting this way to salinity drop. I would pause it- and assure the water used to lower salinity is not colder than tank water. May be reason shark although brackish are responding this way

 

[KilianSP]

If fish are reacting this way to salinity drop. I would pause it- and assure the water used to lower salinity is not colder than tank water. May be reason shark although brackish are responding this way

I preheated the rodi water to the same temperature as the tank water, also dose the alkalinity to 7.

How long should i Pause?

 

[KilianSP]

If fish are reacting this way to salinity drop. I would pause it- and assure the water used to lower salinity is not colder than tank water. May be reason shark although brackish are responding this way

All marine fish died. Today the goby died.
I lowered the salinity over more than 48h with 6 waterchanges.
Why did they die? How do other people do hyposalinity.
No ammonia Spike so far, so it couldn't be that, plus i got an extra airstone in the tank, tank is around 630l

The columbian sharks are fine, the green spotted puffer is still looking like it's muscus is coming of but he Acts fine.
RODI Water was preheated and i added alcalinity to it.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

All marine fish died. Today the goby died.
I lowered the salinity over more than 48h with 6 waterchanges.
Why did they die? How do other people do hyposalinity.
No ammonia Spike so far, so it couldn't be that, plus i got an extra airstone in the tank, tank is around 630l

The columbian sharks are fine, the green spotted puffer is still looking like it's muscus is coming of but he Acts fine.
RODI Water was preheated and i added alcalinity to it.

Sorry to hear.

I see that the salt content of your tank was discussed as specific gravity and then salinity. That can get confusingd. What was the final value that your tank reached?

Hyposalinity is effective, but works fairly slowly. It may well be that the fish just didn't get into the proper low salinity soon enough, and they died from the disease issue.

Jay

 

[KilianSP]

Sorry to hear.

I see that the salt content of your tank was discussed as specific gravity and then salinity. That can get confusingd. What was the final value that your tank reached?

Hyposalinity is effective, but works fairly slowly. It may well be that the fish just didn't get into the proper low salinity soon enough, and they died from the disease issue.

Jay

I was at 12ppt at 25degrees Celsius.
The butterfly died at 23ppt, the goby did at 12ppt.
But the butterfly wasn't sick, neither the goby.
The goby had 3 white spots on the tail, but eat well, no fast breathing, i would say he was healthy.
I did the hyposalinity to finally get rid of the disease which is going on for over a year now, so it was more as precaution kinda thing, there was no active outbreak when i started.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

O.K., sorry - I don't have any other leads to follow for you then.

All I can say is that the fish died in spite of the hyposalinity, not because of it. The catfish could have gone into full hyposalinity in a matter of a few hours with no issue.

Jay

 

[KilianSP]

O.K., sorry - I don't have any other leads to follow for you then.

All I can say is that the fish died in spite of the hyposalinity, not because of it. The catfish could have gone into full hyposalinity in a matter of a few hours with no issue.

Jay

Yeah, at this point i just give up. 1 year, more then 1500 bucks spend in medication and they keep dying.
Stay with the bamboo shark then, not other fish anymore.
As for the fallow period on the shark tank, can i add invertebrates without resetting the timer?
Probably going to add later on my mollys after the fallow period.
And what can i put in there which the shark probably won't eat?
The goby is no more same as the other puffer, so i gold go with snails. Don't know about starfish, if the shark would eat them. Feeding him daily.
Some recomendations on this topic?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

The minimum fallow period is 45 days, with 60 days being safer. Trouble is, the actual disease was never identified - I’d go with the maximum 75 days.
Jay

 

[KilianSP]

The minimum fallow period is 45 days, with 60 days being safer. Trouble is, the actual disease was never identified - I’d go with the maximum 75 days.
Jay

I'll defenetly go with the 67days fallow. I had enough and want this to come to an end.

I would say it was ICH. I put 2,5 litres of Prazipro over the year in this tank, there can't be any flukes anymore and after dipping the porcupine with the white spots, nothing come of and i did microscope the freshwater dip water and the particles which i found in there.
For velvet the fish survived to long. It mostly took 2-3 weeks from first sign till death.
Except for the butterfly and goby in Hyposalinity. I don't know if the UVC and Ozone keep the ICH in the tank in a decent number and it Broker out when i out them in the other system without uvc and ozone.

And what diseases get killed by hyposalinity?
And what can i eradicate by going fallow?
Everything or is there some disease which survives hypo or going fallow.
And if it would be velvet, i think i couldn't keep the bamboo shark so long alive. The bamboo shark, catfish are the only surviving fish since the first outbreak over a year ago.
Then i get New fish, quarantine them and then it starts again and the fish die within 2-3 Months. Cloudy eyes, white spots on the fins only, never had them realy on their body. And in this 2-3 weeks, the spots appear, disappear after 3 days, then when they come back a few days later, they stay until the fish dies.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I'll defenetly go with the 67days fallow. I had enough and want this to come to an end.

I would say it was ICH. I put 2,5 litres of Prazipro over the year in this tank, there can't be any flukes anymore and after dipping the porcupine with the white spots, nothing come of and i did microscope the freshwater dip water and the particles which i found in there.
For velvet the fish survived to long. It mostly took 2-3 weeks from first sign till death.
Except for the butterfly and goby in Hyposalinity. I don't know if the UVC and Ozone keep the ICH in the tank in a decent number and it Broker out when i out them in the other system without uvc and ozone.

And what diseases get killed by hyposalinity?
And what can i eradicate by going fallow?
Everything or is there some disease which survives hypo or going fallow.
And if it would be velvet, i think i couldn't keep the bamboo shark so long alive. The bamboo shark, catfish are the only surviving fish since the first outbreak over a year ago.
Then i get New fish, quarantine them and then it starts again and the fish die within 2-3 Months. Cloudy eyes, white spots on the fins only, never had them realy on their body. And in this 2-3 weeks, the spots appear, disappear after 3 days, then when they come back a few days later, they stay until the fish dies.

Hyposalinity controls most flukes, ich and turbellarians. It has partial control on Brooklnella. It doesn’t stop velvet (Amyloodinium) and can actually make Uronema worse.
Jay

 

[KilianSP]

Hyposalinity controls most flukes, ich and turbellarians. It has partial control on Brooklnella. It doesn’t stop velvet (Amyloodinium) and can actually make Uronema worse.
Jay

I had green chromis in there, but they also died to white spots, no Red sores ever seen.

Right now with the hypo and the shark Isolation, thats all i can do. I would never try to do hypo on the shark. I can handle the death of the other fish, but won't if the shark dies. He is such a puppy. So i would do everything, even if loses are Insolvenz as long as the shark survives and i get rid of the disease. For now the shark is doing great, no symptomes.

 

[KilianSP]

@Jay Hemdal
So, 35 Hyposalinity ended. Fish never looked this good in a while. Crystal clear eyes.
This fish will stay in this tank, they will never go back in the big tank.

The big tank still needs 40 days for fallow period and currently have a little aptasia outbrake, so i got myself some filefish.
Now i want to do also Hypo on the filefish, can they handle hyposalinity?
Thanks in advance and also for always helping me out