Growth led vs aquarium led

[Hats_]

I would probably put it over my mixed reef or set up a small tank tied to the same system.

i wouldnt put it over a mixed reef, the limited blue channel is not enough for proper coral growth

 

[MoshJosh]

not only is this thread a waste of time since you dont want to believe the truth, this may also confuse beginner hobbyists.

i honestly got the point that reef lights are strangely more expensive and maybe there is some truth to that and it may be worth exploring this, but the whole "using grow lights over a reef tank is better" argument is just plain wrong

For the record I am not saying they are better. Price aside a good coral light is going to target the correct spectrums, aesthetically look better (or you can customize it to your liking), will have wifi controllability including ramp up and down, and will offer some sort of water resistance. . . And just overall be better for coral!

Doesn't mean I dont want to try out a grow light haha

That said for those turned off by the price of radions and others, there are plenty of great coral specific lights that are much cheaper, vipraspectrum, Smatfarm, Fluval etc.. Cheap T5 fixtures with ATI bulbs are also a great option.

 

[MoshJosh]

i wouldnt put it over a mixed reef, the limited blue channel is not enough for proper coral growth

Legit question, how much blue spectrum light does a white LED (contains all spectrums right?) produce and does cool white offer more in said spectrum?

 

[MoshJosh]

Also I haven't really talked about it but to the argument (not really an argument) about spectrum. I am of the understanding that we know what types of chlorophyll corals use and we know what spectrums those can utilize. Providing light in the wrong spectrum is likely wasted on corals (monetarily probably not a huge deal (price of electricity and all)) and may grow "undesirables", namely algae.

This is my understanding and I get why a grow light is not optimal.

that said, could a grow light offer enough white light (containing all spectrums) and at cheap enough cost for me to call the "experiment" a success. . . maybe haha

I think I said it before, but: I am sure others have done this before me, probably not a new idea. . . but might be a fun tinkering experiment. And hey I can grow some sweet plants if and when I stop using a grow light. . .

Also, I know this thread has gone off the rails, but I have enjoyed it and appreciate all the good info everyone has posted. Thread has made me think about and start to study spectrums, spectrums at depth, and LED lights. So I have had fun.

BEGINNERS: DON'T use a grow light!

 

[C4ctus99]

Legit question, how much blue spectrum light does a white LED (contains all spectrums right?) produce and does cool white offer more in said spectrum?

You can find grow lights with good peaks in the blues, but I think spectrum is just a ratio and the while the overall light hits the proper amount of par, I think my concern is that the blue specifically will not hit the correct par for whichever corals.

I am currently sorting through the world of solid state controls trying to piece a decent controller together for cheap. Without trying to add in Wi-Fi compatibility it probably reduces the cost by $50-$100 in DIY. I may start out with a simple dip switch/potentiometer controller so that I can manually adjust the lighting spectrum how I want and then a ramp on/off option with a timer

 

[sde1500]

@Hats_

why is it so hard for you to understand the sea is more than what goes on 10 meter below the surface?

Are you here to learn or just act childish and troll a forum in some spare time? I honestly can't tell from this thread. If you are interested in learning, there are threads all over the forum on light, heck we have a whole sub dedicated to it. There are also some good articles out there on it. Try this: https://www.reefcleaners.org/optima...aquarium/optimal-lighting-for-a-reef-aquarium Check the graph of absorption rate for Chlorophyll a, b, c prevalent in zooxanthellae. To highlight another section, "Secondly, there is considerable scientific evidence of the detrimental effects of intense red-light radiation on corals (R.A. Kinzie & T. Hunter 1987). Intense red light frequently produces photosynthetic photoinhibition reactions in zooxanthellae, triggering their expulsion by the coral host and subsequent death. It has also been verified in laboratory studies with corals that blue light produces higher photosynthesis rates, zooxanthellae density, chlorophyll content and overall growth, than red light." Note the spectral graph provided here, how it is mimicked to one degree or another by many of the reef lights.

This is just one article, it isn't too hard to find more. If you wish to learn from people here, try https://www.reef2reef.com/search/4147038/, Dana has a ton of great information on lighting.

 

[Hats_]

Are you here to learn or just act childish and troll a forum in some spare time? I honestly can't tell from this thread. If you are interested in learning, there are threads all over the forum on light, heck we have a whole sub dedicated to it. There are also some good articles out there on it. Try this: https://www.reefcleaners.org/optima...aquarium/optimal-lighting-for-a-reef-aquarium Check the graph of absorption rate for Chlorophyll a, b, c prevalent in zooxanthellae. To highlight another section, "Secondly, there is considerable scientific evidence of the detrimental effects of intense red-light radiation on corals (R.A. Kinzie & T. Hunter 1987). Intense red light frequently produces photosynthetic photoinhibition reactions in zooxanthellae, triggering their expulsion by the coral host and subsequent death. It has also been verified in laboratory studies with corals that blue light produces higher photosynthesis rates, zooxanthellae density, chlorophyll content and overall growth, than red light." Note the spectral graph provided here, how it is mimicked to one degree or another by many of the reef lights.

This is just one article, it isn't too hard to find more. If you wish to learn from people here, try https://www.reef2reef.com/search/4147038/, Dana has a ton of great information on lighting.

i think you are right in your first statement lol, obvious troll... great info though! some people are like that i guess

 

[C4ctus99]

Are you here to learn or just act childish and troll a forum in some spare time? I honestly can't tell from this thread. If you are interested in learning, there are threads all over the forum on light, heck we have a whole sub dedicated to it. There are also some good articles out there on it. Try this: https://www.reefcleaners.org/optima...aquarium/optimal-lighting-for-a-reef-aquarium Check the graph of absorption rate for Chlorophyll a, b, c prevalent in zooxanthellae. To highlight another section, "Secondly, there is considerable scientific evidence of the detrimental effects of intense red-light radiation on corals (R.A. Kinzie & T. Hunter 1987). Intense red light frequently produces photosynthetic photoinhibition reactions in zooxanthellae, triggering their expulsion by the coral host and subsequent death. It has also been verified in laboratory studies with corals that blue light produces higher photosynthesis rates, zooxanthellae density, chlorophyll content and overall growth, than red light." Note the spectral graph provided here, how it is mimicked to one degree or another by many of the reef lights.

This is just one article, it isn't too hard to find more. If you wish to learn from people here, try https://www.reef2reef.com/search/4147038/, Dana has a ton of great information on lighting.

It is interesting how while chlorophyll A has a peak in the red and blue, the red can still cause corals to produce the chemical that stunts photosynthesis.

Also, do y’all know which corals the red light affects the most? Is it all or just some or some to a large degree and others to a small degree?

Also, if the UV light increases the color pigments for corals as a protection like the article said, then would placing a couple UV LEDs in a light increase that?

 

[Hats_]

It is interesting how while chlorophyll A has a peak in the red and blue, the red can still cause corals to produce the chemical that stunts photosynthesis.

Also, do y’all know which corals the red light affects the most? Is it all or just some or some to a large degree and others to a small degree?

Also, if the UV light increases the color pigments for corals as a protection like the article said, then would placing a couple UV LEDs in a light increase that?

i think they mean near uv, my leds have those. makes some corals look real nice.

 

[sde1500]

It is interesting how while chlorophyll A has a peak in the red and blue, the red can still cause corals to produce the chemical that stunts photosynthesis.

Also, do y’all know which corals the red light affects the most? Is it all or just some or some to a large degree and others to a small degree?

Also, if the UV light increases the color pigments for corals as a protection like the article said, then would placing a couple UV LEDs in a light increase that?

wish I knew, https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3962463/ link to another study on it, I have not read it completely yet myself admittedly

For UV, to my knowledge, UV is limited in LEDs. I think some are starting to get down into UV wavelengths, but don't last long. Or that is what I remember reading a while back.

 

[C4ctus99]

wish I knew, https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3962463/ link to another study on it, I have not read it completely yet myself admittedly

For UV, to my knowledge, UV is limited in LEDs. I think some are starting to get down into UV wavelengths, but don't last long. Or that is what I remember reading a while back.

Very interesting read. Looking at one of the graphs specifically and the pictures of the frags at the end shows a lot. They do not show nor specify the color temperature of the white light, but it ended up doing second best, only the blue with equal irradiation did better. The blue with double the irradiation did 3rd best.

Tissue necrosis also seemed to follow that trend, blue 128 then white 128 then blue 256 visually are best to worst in terms of tissue die off

 

[C4ctus99]

At week 5 the white light actually yielded slightly better results than blue at the same level

 

[C4ctus99]

So basically go for it @MoshJosh

Maybe avoid lights with large red/IR peaks

 

[MoshJosh]

So basically go for it @MoshJosh

Maybe avoid lights with large red/IR peaks

Yeah that’s what I was thinking with the light I posted, no reds like the Amazon options.

 

[sde1500]

Yeah that’s what I was thinking with the light I posed, no reds like the Amazon options.

Is This the light you are thinking of? I'm not really an expert on light, but just compare spectrums. Theirs:

Light on the reef:

 

[C4ctus99]

Is This the light you are thinking of? I'm not really an expert on light, but just compare spectrums. Theirs:

Light on the reef:

Might be a little narrow on the blues

 

[MoshJosh]

Is This the light you are thinking of? I'm not really an expert on light, but just compare spectrums. Theirs:

Light on the reef:

I know it is not ideal! It's not supposed to be!!!

Also, what depth is the bottom chart referring to? and there is no relative intensity scale. . . what is "sunlight on the reef" peaking at?

Not saying you are wrong regarding the chart, just difficult to extrapolate conclusions without knowing the data points.

 

[Spare time]

Can I see some proof that the mysterious led light from the aquarium industry are superior?

Datasheets, independant reviews, lab testing results.. Just something…

Anything regarding electronic building standards, ISO standard, company names of the diodes and drivers, assembly control, IP rating.

What information do you want? Do you want a tear-apart of the internals? Spectral analysis (wavelenghts of each dioide)? Intensity distribution maps? Color blending charts? There is an absolute ton of information out there on the measurements of different reef lights. and there are obviously lots of lights out there so I can't just throw a general answer out to you. You can also just look these up yourself as its pretty widley available. The most in depth stuff has been done by bulk reef. Yes they make money off of it but it would be easy to tell if they lied about something since people buy these lights and many like to measure them. They did do one on 4 blackbox lights and made their recommendation out of those and did a tear-down of them. They also roast the heck out of lights they sell, including one's made by their parent company (just listen to them talk about the hydra 64 lol). You can also search dozens of threads here or youtube videos. Even most of the plant grow lights include a chart of the spectrum and you can see that they are often not very appropriate for coral.

 

[Spare time]

All light is important

You need to learn about photopigments. Saying all light is important (which is a bit broad of a statement because what exactly is meant by important is debatable) is showing that you haven't explored excitation peaks and ranges amongst the photopigments commonly found in a coral's zooxanthellae. That is where you will find your answer, as well as in some scholarly articles if they are not too difficult for you to peruse (since they are not written for non-scientists). Now, keep in mind again that how plants utilize spectra is different than how marine algae utilize spectra.

 

[Spare time]

Do they?
Proof it to me, please… Ohh.. Cant wait for this stupidity to continue.

By far the most life is found in shallow water where the full light spectrum is availible.

You are the one who is making the claim contrary to common and popular understanding to the data available and therefore you need to be the one to show evidence (not proof, that's the incorrect term in science as there is no "proof" outside of mathematical equations). Again, this data is easily available though difficult to read, so if you need help with understanding a paper that is fine.