Help! Green Fungia plate coral dying

[MERKEY]

It seems the new plate brought something in the old plate didn't like.

Getting that off the old plate asap would be the best bet.

If it's bacterial the bath would do the trick.

If I were to do a plate I'd try for a couple hours.

 

[Hawkaholic]

I dipped the plate in Logols for 10 minutes, then I added one 500mg pill of cipro to my aprox 250 gallon display system over night. The hermit crabs are leaving it alone currently - I think that means the flesh has stopped dying for the moment.

I’m beginning to think a newly added urchin might have caused the initial injury. The injured side is away from the previously dying orange plate. Also a welso right next to it has a nick on one side.

Once the urchin comes out of hiding he’ll get relocated. Hopefully the flesh will recover on the plate, but it’s very damaged.

 

[Hawkaholic]

Added amino acid to the DT as well. Need to find some restor.

Had this reef tank running for 13+ years and I still have a ton to learn!

 

[Wasabiroot]

@ReefdUp might have some insight, she does amazing work

 

[Hawkaholic]

I just did a 30 minutes dip of chemiclean and Logols iodine with amino acid. The tank still has residual cipro. I’ll add another dose tomorrow.

 

[Wasabiroot]

The gaping is what has me concerned rather than the tissue loss. If it's healthy it should recover. I prefer using amino like AB+ for coral that is injured or can't eat properly but the jury's out if it helps

 

[Hawkaholic]

The gaping is what has me concerned rather than the tissue loss. If it's healthy it should recover. I prefer using amino like AB+ for coral that is injured or can't eat properly but the jury's out if it helps

I give it a 5% chance for survival, if it’s not already dead. But I’ve got to give the old gal a chance!

 

[Wasabiroot]

I feel like if it was already dead you would see tissue coming off...but fingers crossed. Love fungia. And at least you have cipro

 

[Hawkaholic]

I just threw mine in the back of the tank where it was still getting some light. Didn’t take long for it grow some babies. They’re starting to get bigger. Now I actually don’t know what to do next as this is the farthest I’ve been with a mother colony.

Did all the tissue on the mother colony go away before the babies popped up? Or was there a little tissue let where they started? I find this fascinating

 

[ReefdUp]

@ReefdUp might have some insight, she does amazing work

Aww, thank you!!

Sorry to drop in so late.

Oy. Ok, so I didn't see tank parameters, acclimation info (of the orange plate), tank inhabitants, or other info listed that would be critical to diagnosis or treatment. Please provide as much information as possible about everything surrounding the coral.

The gaping mouth also has me extremely concerned. If it has been like that for a day or more, I usually don't see a good outcome. When you look down into the mouth, do you see the skeleton or any mesenterial filaments or other tissue? The tentacles are out - what happens if you put a pellet of fish food on the side by the extended tentacles? If nothing happens in 20 minutes, remove it (and keep the hermits away.)

I don't like suggesting this, as it is quite harsh, but a tank water to 3% hydrogen peroxide ratio of 4:1 up to 1:1 for 20-60 seconds can arrest progression if it is certain pathogens. This may buy you time. The variations above depend on how desperate you are... and come with increasing risk.

I am, in general, completely uncomfortable with the almost knee-jerk reactions across the board to treat so much with antibiotics, especially with the general lack of diagnostics in the hobby. I don't want to turn this into a soapbox, but I want to make sure we're all being responsible. We don't need antibiotic-resistant strains of bacteria in the hobby.

When a coral dies rapidly, for whatever reason, it can resemble "brown jelly," which is most currently associated with a potential bacterial cause. However, other causes of death can create this same brown jelly-ish look.

Yes, it is suspicious that the orange plate had a similar demise. However, there are a lot of unknowns here. Antibiotics should be one of the last measures. And mercy... never in my life have I used such a medication cocktail (and I have hundreds of rescued corals under my belt).

Sorry - that was more of a soapbox than I intended. Please keep us posted with it's progression and overall tank info.

Best wishes!

 

[Wasabiroot]

Aww, thank you!!

Sorry to drop in so late.

Oy. Ok, so I didn't see tank parameters, acclimation info (of the orange plate), tank inhabitants, or other info listed that would be critical to diagnosis or treatment. Please provide as much information as possible about everything surrounding the coral.

The gaping mouth also has me extremely concerned. If it has been like that for a day or more, I usually don't see a good outcome. When you look down into the mouth, do you see the skeleton or any mesenterial filaments or other tissue? The tentacles are out - what happens if you put a pellet of fish food on the side by the extended tentacles? If nothing happens in 20 minutes, remove it (and keep the hermits away.)

I don't like suggesting this, as it is quite harsh, but a tank water to 3% hydrogen peroxide ratio of 4:1 up to 1:1 for 20-60 seconds can arrest progression if it is certain pathogens. This may buy you time. The variations above depend on how desperate you are... and come with increasing risk.

I am, in general, completely uncomfortable with the almost knee-jerk reactions across the board to treat so much with antibiotics, especially with the general lack of diagnostics in the hobby. I don't want to turn this into a soapbox, but I want to make sure we're all being responsible. We don't need antibiotic-resistant strains of bacteria in the hobby.

When a coral dies rapidly, for whatever reason, it can resemble "brown jelly," which is most currently associated with a potential bacterial cause. However, other causes of death can create this same brown jelly-ish look.

Yes, it is suspicious that the orange plate had a similar demise. However, there are a lot of unknowns here. Antibiotics should be one of the last measures. And mercy... never in my life have I used such a medication cocktail (and I have hundreds of rescued corals under my belt).

Sorry - that was more of a soapbox than I intended. Please keep us posted with it's progression and overall tank info.

Best wishes!

No, that's absolutely fair. Ciprofloxacin is not a panacaea, it needs to be used responsibly like all antibiotics.

 

[ReefdUp]

No, that's absolutely fair. Ciprofloxacin is not a panacaea, it needs to be used responsibly like all antibiotics.

Thanks for understanding! My soapbox is directed toward me just as much as anyone else using antibiotics. It's incredibly easy to see the success from their proper use, then automatically start to reach for them every time a similar situation occurs. I've accidentally treated with antibiotics before, only to find the real source of the problem later (and feel very sheepish).

Anyway, I had a few more thoughts. If it was truly brown jelly (e.g., possibly arcobacter), then I would expect to see more rapid necrosis, spreading, and spreading outside the same genus. How close were the orange and green plates at the time of the orange plate's death? That being said, there's definitely a level of genus-type susceptibility with brown jelly and other bacterial infections that I've seen. However, I'd still expect to see a different decline.

I *absolutely* do not keep hermit crabs in the same tank as my rescues. They will eat the dying tissue... the healthy tissue... everything, so long as the coral can't defend itself. Do whatever you can to keep them away (your bowl idea sounds good, as long as there's good flow to the coral).

As for the anthocauli (baby plates), it has taken about nine months for me to see the faintest hints of life. Even then, it was about a year and a half for nickel-sized babies to grow (although that was at a terrible phase in my reefkeeping history). If all else fails with your plate, just keep it in good conditions (good light, flow, with *no* algae other than surface).

All that said... what's the possibility this coral is just at the end of its lifespan? Depending on the species, they live ~13-46 years, according to a few studies I found. The coral was likely 5+ years old upon collection, plus it lived another 12 years in your system (not to mention time in collection/transportation). I hope it's not its time to go, though.

 

[Hawkaholic]

How do the corals respond? Close up for a period? Droopy or just act normal?

I have been told of a qt regimen that involves cipro at 500 mg/150 gallons once per week and a couple dips using Logols and dipX per week. This single shot seems aggressive, but more likely to get done.

Nevermind.

Aww, thank you!!

Sorry to drop in so late.

Oy. Ok, so I didn't see tank parameters, acclimation info (of the orange plate), tank inhabitants, or other info listed that would be critical to diagnosis or treatment. Please provide as much information as possible about everything surrounding the coral.

The gaping mouth also has me extremely concerned. If it has been like that for a day or more, I usually don't see a good outcome. When you look down into the mouth, do you see the skeleton or any mesenterial filaments or other tissue? The tentacles are out - what happens if you put a pellet of fish food on the side by the extended tentacles? If nothing happens in 20 minutes, remove it (and keep the hermits away.)

I don't like suggesting this, as it is quite harsh, but a tank water to 3% hydrogen peroxide ratio of 4:1 up to 1:1 for 20-60 seconds can arrest progression if it is certain pathogens. This may buy you time. The variations above depend on how desperate you are... and come with increasing risk.

I am, in general, completely uncomfortable with the almost knee-jerk reactions across the board to treat so much with antibiotics, especially with the general lack of diagnostics in the hobby. I don't want to turn this into a soapbox, but I want to make sure we're all being responsible. We don't need antibiotic-resistant strains of bacteria in the hobby.

When a coral dies rapidly, for whatever reason, it can resemble "brown jelly," which is most currently associated with a potential bacterial cause. However, other causes of death can create this same brown jelly-ish look.

Yes, it is suspicious that the orange plate had a similar demise. However, there are a lot of unknowns here. Antibiotics should be one of the last measures. And mercy... never in my life have I used such a medication cocktail (and I have hundreds of rescued corals under my belt).

Sorry - that was more of a soapbox than I intended. Please keep us posted with it's progression and overall tank info.

Best wishes!

orange plate was in the tank for a week and looking good before it cratered overnight. Gone in a couple days. - had been dipped in dipX for about 10 minutes before going into the tank.

Haven’t checked N or p in a decade so no reading there.

 

[Hawkaholic]

Sorry, I don’t know what that nevermind was.

The orange plate was 3” away from the green plate. There is a new bubble tip anemone a few inches away, but the damaged flesh is the opposite side from the nem. On the left is a huge leather coral. To the right -injured side is a newly added wellso that also has a physical injury on the side closest to the green plate. The wellso is less injured and inflates fully during the day.

 

[Hawkaholic]

How it looked a few days ago. I don’t have a zoomed out picture and the lights are out currently.

 

[Hawkaholic]

I was able to contain the actual jelly when the flesh decayed on the orange plate. I’m sure some of it escaped, but the lions share was contained thankfully. I’ve watched too many hammers and torches melt from brown jelly.

full disclosure I have had a couple fish die recently due to weird bacterial stuff. I didn’t treat because I didn’t want to harm the coral and couldn’t catch the fish to put in a qt. Too many corals to do much in the dt.

 

[ReefdUp]

Uhhhh. I think that photo gives my #1 suspect... the clowns...

Did you notice the clowns try to host in the plate at all? I've seen them, countless times, leave their host if there's something new nearby (either to redecorate, throw a temper tantrum, or to find a new home). They'll try to host in a nearby coral - and fail - but destroy the coral in the process. You may want to try watching them late at night and at random points throughout the day. I know it sounds silly, but this is just so common. (Occam's razor...)

Any insight on the plate's mouth's condition?

I would still recommend testing everything possible, as there's a culprit somewhere. It makes more sense to test for things and not react when they're not an issue than to treat for untested possibilities.

What happened with the fish??

 

[Hawkaholic]

The only new things are a cuc - blue leg hermit crabs, astrea snails and one white pin cushion urchin. I suspect the urchin is the culprit. I kinda doubt this is bjd. At least I hope not. Torches look great. Hammers are a little closed up this evening.

 

[Hawkaholic]

Uhhhh. I think that photo gives my #1 suspect... the clowns...

Did you notice the clowns try to host in the plate at all? I've seen them, countless times, leave their host if there's something new nearby (either to redecorate, throw a temper tantrum, or to find a new home). They'll try to host in a nearby coral - and fail - but destroy the coral in the process. You may want to try watching them late at night and at random points throughout the day. I know it sounds silly, but this is just so common. (Occam's razor...)

Any insight on the plate's mouth's condition?

I would still recommend testing everything possible, as there's a culprit somewhere. It makes more sense to test for things and not react when they're not an issue than to treat for untested possibilities.

What happened with the fish??

Clowns are busily bothering the nem to death. They also nest in the wellso when the nem closes up. They (clowns and plate) have been in this proximity for about 3 years, but they have been digging in the sand nearby more recently.

the mouth was tightly closed unless eating until the side showed injury - skeleton showing thru flesh and the flesh on the injured side is off color - brownish. Not inflating. The day before it was fine, fully inflated mouth closed, good color.

I did not treat the fish. They died. - six line wrasse, dusty anglefish (off and on a pest) and a royal gramma - just disappeared.

 

[Hawkaholic]

Before I get another lecture, I do have a bacterial problem in the fish if not the coral (blue hippo tang keeps getting popeye too). I broke down after 3 fish died and a yellow tang was looking ill. All I could find that should not hurt the corals and may actually help with my issues is cipro. This is my first time using it. If you have an axe to grind about over use of antibiotics it’s not with me. - 14 years of reefing and this is the first time I’m treating with cipro.

For anyone reading this thread be very careful with hydrogen peroxide. That is terrible advise for many corals - for instance stylophora will die extremely quickly in a hydrogen peroxide dip.