I stopped equalising water for fish.

[atoll]

Just a reminder,my thread is about acclimatising fish and what I do or don't do, inverts are a totally different matter.

 

[LiamPM]

I just put my fish in the tank. Not worried about parameters when I see fresh water dipping with no ill effects. Haven't lost a fish or invert yet.

I asked the same question based on this a little while ago without any real answers - Why do we focus so much on "acclimating" fish to our tanks when we literally throw them in fresh water for minutes wihtout a single care in the world.

The only answers i got were "long term and short term are different" - But lets be honest, they arent when the bulk of what people are saying the problem being is osmotic shock.

I used to drip acclimate - Now i temp acclimate and release - See zero difference in my personal outcomes.

 

[atoll]

I asked the same question based on this a little while ago without any real answers - Why do we focus so much on "acclimating" fish to our tanks when we literally throw them in fresh water for minutes wihtout a single care in the world.

The only answers i got were "long term and short term are different" - But lets be honest, they arent when the bulk of what people are saying the problem being is osmotic shock.

I used to drip acclimate - Now i temp acclimate and release - See zero difference in my personal outcomes.

Good point and that must be a far bigger shock with zero salinity with FW. Not that I have done FW baths for many many years.

 

[Viking_Reefing]

I think most fish will be able to handle it without too much of an issue and the circumstances are also important. If the fish has been sitting in the bag for a long time and has fouled the water I would definitely just equalize temperature and get it in the tank asap.
However, I still don’t think it’s ideal under most conditions. The majors issue would be salinity. I find that fish have an easier time adjusting to a lower salinity than a higher one.
If you’ve bought the fish at your local LFS and it has been in the bag for an hour or so it would be best to do some sort of an acclimatization of the fish, providing that there is a difference in salinity between the bag water and your tank water.
Again, the fish will most likely be able to handle it but it would introduce more stress.

When I get a new fish I check the salinity of the bag and then adjust the salinity of my QT accordingly, then I just floss the bag for a bit and introduce the fish.
Same thing when it’s going in to the DT. I make sure the temp and salinity matches and then just dump the fish.

Corals however don’t need any fancy acclimating procedures. Simply float, dip and dump.

 

[TheReefDiary]

I asked the same question based on this a little while ago without any real answers - Why do we focus so much on "acclimating" fish to our tanks when we literally throw them in fresh water for minutes wihtout a single care in the world.

The only answers i got were "long term and short term are different" - But lets be honest, they arent when the bulk of what people are saying the problem being is osmotic shock.

I used to drip acclimate - Now i temp acclimate and release - See zero difference in my personal outcomes.

depends if you're buying local or shipping. if shipping getting them out of the dirty water as quickly as possible is definitely top priority. but for me I buy local so it's not as much of a problem. I always drip acclimate because the fish are kept in 1.018 salinity vs my 1.025.

 

[LiamPM]

depends if you're buying local or shipping. if shipping getting them out of the dirty water as quickly as possible is definitely top priority. but for me I buy local so it's not as much of a problem. I always drip acclimate because the fish are kept in 1.018 salinity vs my 1.025.

Im not sure if you meant to quote me on this reply - Because dipping a fish doesnt depend on buying local or shipping - dipping is done for health reasons - My post was all about dipping.

Same gist though - You like to drip those you know are in a lower salinity to yours - Presumably to not shock the fish - So what about those that fresh water dip for health reasons - Theres no care for the salinity change when it comes to a fresh water dip, its intentionally done.

 

[TheReefDiary]

Im not sure if you meant to quote me on this reply - Because dipping a fish doesnt depend on buying local or shipping - dipping is done for health reasons - My post was all about dipping.

Same gist though - You like to drip those you know are in a lower salinity to yours - Presumably to not shock the fish - So what about those that fresh water dip for health reasons - Theres no care for the salinity change when it comes to a fresh water dip, its intentionally done.

I think it's more of a thing you can do then you must do. both things would clearly stress the fish out. stress induces disease. In the case of fresh water dips those usually are last minute hail Marys to save a diseased fish and usually not recommended to do for no apparent reason.

if I can reduce the amount of stress the fish experiences from transferring tanks I try to do that. I did a quick transfer once and the fish didn't make it. haven't lost a fish ever since when I acclimate them.

 

[Midrats]

Float, cut, dump, it's the industry standard. I would have never gone home had I been drip acclimating every fish from the almost daily freight I picked up at Dulles.

 

[HankstankXXL750]

Im not sure if you meant to quote me on this reply - Because dipping a fish doesnt depend on buying local or shipping - dipping is done for health reasons - My post was all about dipping.

Same gist though - You like to drip those you know are in a lower salinity to yours - Presumably to not shock the fish - So what about those that fresh water dip for health reasons - Theres no care for the salinity change when it comes to a fresh water dip, its intentionally done.

My understanding is that fish have a harder time with an increase in salinity. Also in a fresh water dip you are directed to observe the entire time and return the fish to normal water if negative reaction.

In last questions I asked rapid increases in salinity have negative affects on the fishes health. But rapid decreases are much less harmful. In a freshwater dip, it is generally to release or kill parasites. A freshwater dip is short term and yes probably shocking both in the dip and the return, but the fish has acclimated to the normal salinity so when returned it is like getting back to normal. However if a sharp increase in salinity causes the fish to have trouble converting oxygen, then a sudden change upward would leave the fish “struggling” for an extended period while it adjusts.

I recently had a tanks ATO system not close the valve and my sump overflowed and salinity dropped hugely. Once I fixed the problem I used saltwater for top offs to slowly raise salinity back vs a large water change to do it all at once.

I won’t say that float and dump in higher salinity will kill a fish, but I do believe it is harder on the fish.

 

[LiamPM]

My understanding is that fish have a harder time with an increase in salinity. Also in a fresh water dip you are directed to observe the entire time and return the fish to normal water if negative reaction.

In last questions I asked rapid increases in salinity have negative affects on the fishes health. But rapid decreases are much less harmful. In a freshwater dip, it is generally to release or kill parasites. A freshwater dip is short term and yes probably shocking both in the dip and the return, but the fish has acclimated to the normal salinity so when returned it is like getting back to normal. However if a sharp increase in salinity causes the fish to have trouble converting oxygen, then a sudden change upward would leave the fish “struggling” for an extended period while it adjusts.

I recently had a tanks ATO system not close the valve and my sump overflowed and salinity dropped hugely. Once I fixed the problem I used saltwater for top offs to slowly raise salinity back vs a large water change to do it all at once.

I won’t say that float and dump in higher salinity will kill a fish, but I do believe it is harder on the fish.

I see what your saying - Just think the point still holds up

Give a fish a freshwater dip from your tank - it rapidly decreases salinity in an instant to zero
Return a fish to your tank from a freshwater dip - It rapidly increase salinity from zero to normal in an instant

I cant see the salinity it was in before both rapid changes playing a part on wether it gets osmotic shock/any shock or not. Id expect any type of shock to take place there and then at the time.

 

[92Miata]

I asked the same question based on this a little while ago without any real answers - Why do we focus so much on "acclimating" fish to our tanks when we literally throw them in fresh water for minutes wihtout a single care in the world.

Because 90% of what is done in this hobby is stuff that was done with delicate freshwater fish (like discus) and just got carried over to saltwater by early marine aquarists. A whole lot of it has no good reason to be done.


Acclimating amazonian freshwater fish is a great idea - because those fish are kept in acidic water and ammonium->ammonia isn't a big problem at low pH. In pH 8+ saltwater, it's an enormous problem.

A lot of the "rules" in this hobby are nonsense. They're 50 year old freshwater habits that don't make sense in saltwater (like nitrite being toxic)

 

[slythy]

I use a needle to poke the bag (below the water) to get a salinity reading and tape it back up and let it float. I then make a gallon or so of FSW with that salinity and once its heated to the same as my reef tank I plop the fish into there. I do keep an airstone in there as well. Then slowly increase the salinity over an hour via drip or just a cup of water at a time until it matches the tank then drop it in. I havent lost a fish yet this way.

 

[Tamberav]

Because 90% of what is done in this hobby is stuff that was done with delicate freshwater fish (like discus) and just got carried over to saltwater by early marine aquarists. A whole lot of it has no good reason to be done.


Acclimating amazonian freshwater fish is a great idea - because those fish are kept in acidic water and ammonium->ammonia isn't a big problem at low pH. In pH 8+ saltwater, it's an enormous problem.

A lot of the "rules" in this hobby are nonsense. They're 50 year old freshwater habits that don't make sense in saltwater (like nitrite being toxic)

 

[Tamberav]

I use a needle to poke the bag (below the water) to get a salinity reading and tape it back up and let it float. I then make a gallon or so of FSW with that salinity and once its heated to the same as my reef tank I plop the fish into there. I do keep an airstone in there as well. Then slowly increase the salinity over an hour via drip or just a cup of water at a time until it matches the tank then drop it in. I havent lost a fish yet this way.

This is a smart way to do it for those who want to drip. A sample without opening the bag.

 

[Malcontent]

This is a smart way to do it for those who want to drip. A sample without opening the bag.

Opening the bag isn't going to do anything.

 

[Daniel@R2R]

Here's how I do it (not that I'm an expert in any way):

If it's bought local (at an LFS or from another hobbyist), I do a slow (either drip or incremental water blending) acclimation since the water it is coming in should be fine and allows for a gradual change so as not to shock the fish as much.

If it's been shipped, then I'm assuming the water it's in is going to be building up ammonia which (as I understand it) becomes much more toxic once the bag is opened. Therefore, I float to acclimate to temperature and then release to (again) minimize the stress on the fish.

 

[slythy]

Opening the bag isn't going to do anything.

Thats what causes the problems. The CO2 build up lowers the PH making ammonia less toxic. The rise in PH makes ammonia toxic and causes gill burns and other bad things. This is why drip acclimating in shipped water is not a good Idea. You can for sure do this with fish you just purchased at a store since the ammonia levels will be low but a shipped fish you will have high ammonia.

 

[slythy]

Because 90% of what is done in this hobby is stuff that was done with delicate freshwater fish (like discus) and just got carried over to saltwater by early marine aquarists. A whole lot of it has no good reason to be done.


Acclimating amazonian freshwater fish is a great idea - because those fish are kept in acidic water and ammonium->ammonia isn't a big problem at low pH. In pH 8+ saltwater, it's an enormous problem.

A lot of the "rules" in this hobby are nonsense. They're 50 year old freshwater habits that don't make sense in saltwater (like nitrite being toxic)

Funnily enough when I kept Discus the standard practice is to "Plop & Drop". This is where I first heard of it and seems like most people have the most success with doing it without drip acclimation.

 

[Malcontent]

Thats what causes the problems. The CO2 build up lowers the PH making ammonia less toxic. The rise in PH makes ammonia toxic and causes gill burns and other bad things. This is why drip acclimating in shipped water is not a good Idea. You can for sure do this with fish you just purchased at a store since the ammonia levels will be low but a shipped fish you will have high ammonia.

Studies have shown that it would take nearly a day for the CO2 to diffuse out of the water.

So now the story is that dripping water will raise the pH and make ammonium toxic. Brought to you by the people who swore that it would happen the instant you opened the bag.

Someone needs to actually measure this or at least do the math. I wasn't fooled the first time and I'm skeptical the people who got it so wrong then are suddenly right this time.

 

[92Miata]

Studies have shown that it would take nearly a day for the CO2 to diffuse out of the water.

So now the story is that dripping water will raise the pH and make ammonium toxic. Brought to you by the people who swore that it would happen the instant you opened the bag.

Someone needs to actually measure this or at least do the math. I wasn't fooled the first time and I'm skeptical the people who got it so wrong then are suddenly right this time.

Link some of those studies then.



I run a calcium reactor. The effluent is about pH 6.2. I can leave a cup of it out, and it's at almost 8 in less than an hour. I know, because I've done this.