Ich, Brook, other Fish sickness

[K2D2_Texas]

I’m very new to this hobby. My wife wanted a fish tank for Christmas, I figured if I’m going to have one I wanted a Marine aquarium so we went for it.

Tank info: 45g rimmed tank, live sand (Hawaiian black), dry live rock (40lbs), 2 fans for current, Comline 9001 skimmer, Eheim 200w heater, Aquatop Aquatic 4 stage canister filter (didn’t have room or money for a sump), AquaStar G5 light

We live cycled our tank with 2 damsel fish and the Microbacter Start nitrifying bacteria. Tank seemed to cycle fine I never had any amonia or nitrite spikes and the fish were thriving for about 2 weeks. We then added a Royal Granma and diamond goby. The Damsels (one domino and one 3 stripe) were initially aggressive but after about a week backed off. The guy at the fish store sold these to my wife and failed to tell us how aggressive they were.

All 4 fish were thriving in the tank. I was checking amonia, ph, nitrite, and nitrate every other day, and doing 3-4g water changes once a week for 2 weeks. Everything seemed fine.

Last weekend (Saturday) we added 2 clowns from our LFS (I think that’s the right acronym). On Monday both clowns, the gramma and goby were all dead. Tuesday night the domino damsel was acting off and Wednesday morning it was also dead. As of now the 3 stripe is still in the tank and acting normal. I never had any ammonia/nitrite spikes, temp fluctuations or power failures.

When I added the clowns I expected them to run and hide in the rock immediately like all the other fish did. They did not. They stayed near the surface or in the water column just swimming around. The damsels did not like them at first but I expected that by then. After the first day all the fish were swimming around and the clowns were rubbing on the other fish. We were so excited bc we thought they were all getting along and “playing”, if fish even do that.

After some research we’ve come to think it was ich, or brook. The domino had visible white spots all over it. The dead clown had a strange cloudy look to his color and kinda turned brown on the top. I purchased some Ich-X from a different LFS to try and help the 3 stripe, but have not been able to net it out of the tank yet. It’s still very quick. I dont want to put the Ich-X in the tank bc we want to have corals down the line.

I’ve now got a small 10g QT tank that I’ve set up for future use. What can I do about my tank tho? The parasite is in it (whatever it is). I don’t want to dismantle and start over but also don’t want to keep dooming fish to a sad death.

God bless whoever has the patients to read all this. I can get carried away with my words.

 

[threebuoys]

Welcome to R2R!

I'm sorry you first post had to occur under these circumstances.

While a number of reasons could have caused your problems, your description of the condition of the fish strongly suggests parasites.

Given the young age of your tank, and the lack of coral or invertebrates, IMO, your quickest solution would be a complete restart.

You can move the surviving damsel into the 10 gallon QT and treat with copper following the QT protocol in the stickies. You could add a couple of other small fish to the 10 gallon QT at the beginning and run them all through QT at the same time, however a 10 gallon QT is very small and could only support 3 or 4 damsel size fish safely for the duration of the QT. Closely monitor the ammonia in the QT if you don't have cycled filtration media for whatever filter you use.

While the fish are in Qt, nuke the display tank. Remove water, use a strong bleach (no soap or scent or no splash components) and fresh water solution to soak the sand and rock and filtration for a day. Rinse everything down thoroughly with fresh water, dry and start over. Do a fishless cycle with the tank to prepare it for when your QT period is complete

A slower method would be to allow your display tank to go fallow, see the stickies for instructions. This would be the preferred method if you had corals or invertebrates in the tank which you want to preserve.

Good luck

 

[K2D2_Texas]

Thanks for the advise. The guy at our LFS suggested treating the last fish if I can get it out, and then reintroducing that fish and a cleaner wrasse back into the tank. My filter does have a built in UV sterilizer which I read can help a little.

I also read that that if we can get the last fish out and QT it and medicate it we can turn the temp up on the tank to 84-85 for several days and that would kill any live parasites. Does any of this sound realistic?

 

[adittam]

You need to let the display tank go fishless for 45 days, or nuke it and start over as suggested. The little UV sterilizers that are built into filters do literally nothing against parasites. I would not ask that person at the LFS for advice any longer, sorry.

 

[adittam]

Cleaner wrasses often starve to death in aquariums because they won’t eat prepared food.

 

[K2D2_Texas]

Sounds like starting over will be the safest bet. Appreciate the advise. So let me make sure I understand all that needs done.
1. All water out
2. Rock soaked in bleach/water mixture. What ratio do y’all recommend?
3. Same for the sand. I’ll probably just buy new sand tho.
4. Equipment? Do I need to sterilize all my equipment as well in the same kind of bleach water mix?

 

[threebuoys]

Sounds like starting over will be the safest bet. Appreciate the advise. So let me make sure I understand all that needs done.
1. All water out
2. Rock soaked in bleach/water mixture. What ratio do y’all recommend?
3. Same for the sand. I’ll probably just buy new sand tho.
4. Equipment? Do I need to sterilize all my equipment as well in the same kind of bleach water mix?

I use a pretty strong solution, probably 1 qt to 5 gallons. Wash everything down with it, wear gloves, let rock and any thing else thats porous soak a bit.

Definitely need to sterilize the equipment too YOu can wash off the heater and the filter and wave maker with the solution then dry everything off. .

 

[Tamberav]

Thanks for the advise. The guy at our LFS suggested treating the last fish if I can get it out, and then reintroducing that fish and a cleaner wrasse back into the tank. My filter does have a built in UV sterilizer which I read can help a little.

I also read that that if we can get the last fish out and QT it and medicate it we can turn the temp up on the tank to 84-85 for several days and that would kill any live parasites. Does any of this sound realistic?

Cleaner wrasses are difficult and will not cure your parasite issue or likely even help on small fish. They can irritate them.

Ich X will not cure your fish or tank so don't bother. You need copper for Ich and Ruby Rally/Metro for brook.

The fallow period (no fish) is 45 days, turn the temp to 82. You can still add corals/inverts during this time. They can handle 82.

I would not start the tank over. Part of the reason fish get so sick in this hobby is new tanks are so sterile.

Here are the stickies:

45 Day Fallow periods

I've been doing some research into the "76 day fallow period". I never heard of that prior to coming to Reef2Reef this past summer. I had always used 32 days as the maximum time for a tomont to remain viable under tropical conditions, and then I would round up to 45 days to help ensure that...

www.reef2reef.com

Current Quarantine Protocol

2023 Quarantine Procedures Jay Hemdal David Scarborough Protozoans (Cryptocaryon/ich, Amyloodinium/velvet) and Metazoan trematodes/flukes are by far the most common parasites found on newly acquired fish. A carefully managed quarantine process can effectively eliminate these parasites before...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[Sharkbait19]

I agree not to break down. Fallow gives a good chance for lots of the microorganisms like pods to really establish, and the last thing you want is to have to cycle the tank again.

I would add any corals or inverts you are immediately interested in before the fallow. Once it’s going, if anything new goes in the tank you risk them carrying ich or brook or velvet in, and thus “resetting the fallow.” I made that mistake early on.
Though dipping, coral/invert qt’ing, or buying from tanks not exposed to fish can reduca that risk.

 

[KeepSwimming]

+1 for adding inverts and letting the tank go fallow, that way it functions as a quarantine for the clean up crew that you will want down the road. The time spent without fish will give your tank a chance to mature and serve you well in the long run. A hard reset would eliminate disease now, but that same disease can sneak in as soon as you need a snail to help fight an algae bloom.

 

[K2D2_Texas]

I agree not to break down. Fallow gives a good chance for lots of the microorganisms like pods to really establish, and the last thing you want is to have to cycle the tank again.

I would add any corals or inverts you are immediately interested in before the fallow. Once it’s going, if anything new goes in the tank you risk them carrying ich or brook or velvet in, and thus “resetting the fallow.” I made that mistake early on.
Though dipping, coral/invert qt’ing, or buying from tanks not exposed to fish can reduca that risk.

Ok. My wife and I like this option bc it allows to to continue with the tank as we have it and not have to start over.

That being said how do I know if my tank is ready for corals? I was advised to wait 3-6 months after start up before trying to add them. Do I add more than one coral at a time or are the line fish where you only want to add 1-2 every couple of weeks?

Same goes for the inverts. Do I add several at once and just continue checking water parameters and doing water changes?

 

[Tamberav]

Ok. My wife and I like this option bc it allows to to continue with the tank as we have it and not have to start over.

That being said how do I know if my tank is ready for corals? I was advised to wait 3-6 months after start up before trying to add them. Do I add more than one coral at a time or are the line fish where you only want to add 1-2 every couple of weeks?

Same goes for the inverts. Do I add several at once and just continue checking water parameters and doing water changes?

Tank is ready for corals now.. and a clean up crew if you have any micro algae. Your tank looks really clean, not sure if you have film algae?

Start with easier corals.

 

[adittam]

Ok. My wife and I like this option bc it allows to to continue with the tank as we have it and not have to start over.

That being said how do I know if my tank is ready for corals? I was advised to wait 3-6 months after start up before trying to add them. Do I add more than one coral at a time or are the line fish where you only want to add 1-2 every couple of weeks?

Same goes for the inverts. Do I add several at once and just continue checking water parameters and doing water changes?

Inverts and corals don’t add appreciably to your bio load. You can add as many as you like at once. As far as corals go, your tank is probably too young for most LPS or SPS corals, but you could safely add a few soft corals like a toadstool or some zoas.

 

[Sharkbait19]

I agree, zoas, leathers, Xenia, and gsp all make great beginner corals.

 

[K2D2_Texas]

Ok. My wife and I like this option bc it allows to to continue with the tank as we have it and not have to start over.

That being said how do I know if my tank is ready for corals? I was advised to wait 3-6 months after start up before trying to add them. Do I add more than one coral at a time or are the line fish where you only want to add 1-2 every couple of weeks?

Same goes for the inverts. Do I add several at once and just continue checking water parameters and doing water changes?

Tank is ready for corals now.. and a clean up crew if you have any micro algae. Your tank looks really clean, not sure if you have film algae?

Start with easier corals.

We had a haze build up on the glass since we started it. It wasn’t green just kind of a cloudy look. We scraped the glass with the mag float and it cleaned up real nice. We did this the day before adding the two clowns. Don’t know if that is film algae.

Also, the 3 stripe damsel is still alive in there. We tried to net her out but we’re unsuccessful. Is it normal for all the other fish to die of seemingly the same thing and then one to survive? I mean she’s still spooked from our attempt to net her but otherwise she’s acting normally.

 

[Tamberav]

We had a haze build up on the glass since we started it. It wasn’t green just kind of a cloudy look. We scraped the glass with the mag float and it cleaned up real nice. We did this the day before adding the two clowns. Don’t know if that is film algae.

Also, the 3 stripe damsel is still alive in there. We tried to net her out but we’re unsuccessful. Is it normal for all the other fish to die of seemingly the same thing and then one to survive? I mean she’s still spooked from our attempt to net her but otherwise she’s acting normally.

Yes one can survive at times and still have it

Sounds like that could be film algae.

 

[K2D2_Texas]

Inverts and corals don’t add appreciably to your bio load. You can add as many as you like at once. As far as corals go, your tank is probably too young for most LPS or SPS corals, but you could safely add a few soft corals like a toadstool or some zoas.

Another question. If I go fallow, and add some corals and various clean up crew members do I have to feed the inverts anything special? And don’t the corals use some of the fish waste as food also? What should I supplement with?

 

[K2D2_Texas]

Another question. If I go fallow, and add some corals and various clean up crew members do I have to feed the inverts anything special? And don’t the corals use some of the fish waste as food also? What should I supplement with?

And a list of appropriate inverts or corals for my size tank would be cool too if y’all wouldn’t mind.

 

[Pattys]

We had a haze build up on the glass since we started it. It wasn’t green just kind of a cloudy look. We scraped the glass with the mag float and it cleaned up real nice. We did this the day before adding the two clowns. Don’t know if that is film algae.

Also, the 3 stripe damsel is still alive in there. We tried to net her out but we’re unsuccessful. Is it normal for all the other fish to die of seemingly the same thing and then one to survive? I mean she’s still spooked from our attempt to net her but otherwise she’s acting normally.

add bacteria to your tank--https://www.saltwateraquarium.com/microbacter-start-xlm-15x-500-ml-16-oz-brightwell/ I used the brightwell products to get my tank established and still use them
also go to bulkreef supply and watch their videos-I think they are called 52 weeks of reefing
go to Algeabarn, and buy copepods and get them established in your tank you can also buy them from a lfs. I personally like Algeabarn as they have a good reputation, also you can go to reef nutrition and buy them--hope it all works out

 

[Pattys]

Another question. If I go fallow, and add some corals and various clean up crew members do I have to feed the inverts anything special? And don’t the corals use some of the fish waste as food also? What should I supplement with?

Which Clean-up Crew Critters Should You Have In Your Reef Tank?

Learn about the most common clean-up crew animals and how to choose the right clean-up crew for your reef tank.

www.bulkreefsupply.com

you need to feed the clean up crew--like in my previous post research and review 52 weeks of reefing

52 Weeks Of Reefing Playlist - Bulk Reef Supply

The complete playlist including all 52 episodes from our year-long build a reef tank vieo series focused on the famous BRS160 aquarium. We also cataloged additional update videos in which Ryan keeps

www.bulkreefsupply.com