ICH.......routes to take?

[Bakedpwn]

Soooooo i get back from reefapalooza and im checking out my 40B tank only to notice under the blues my 1.5 week kole tang has white spots everywhere. No doubt ich or some parasite.
Well i have like 5 unglued frags in the tank, one BTA, 1 valentini puffer, tailspot blenny, yellow goby and 2 cleaner shrimp.
I recently got rid of my phos ridden dry rock and replaced it 100% with live over the course of months. Hadnt had an issue with phos which are at 0 and nitrate(*stays below 10).

Thing is i have an empty 120 gallon i am getting rdy to setup in the next week or two, as well as a "copepod" 10 gal tank with all the things nesscary for QT.
So how could i do this effeciently without losing the live rock.
Now the other fish are eating and showing no signs of ich.

I was thinking of getting the 120 going, then moving half the live rock to seed it. Then add some copper to the 120 and slowly add fish by fish.

Not sure what else to do besides break it down and start fresh on 120 which would suck.

the kole tang is maybe 1.5 inch

 

[ngoodermuth]

Personally, I would prefer not to use copper in a display tank. I know others have posted success with removing it, but I'm paranoid about leaching.

Also, you are going to go through a lot more medication in a 120. I was recently in a similar situation (same sized tanks and all!), except I had already moved everything, over to my 120. I converted my 40b into a hospital tank. If it is ich, and not velvet or brook, you might have time to do something similar...move your rock, corals, and inverts to the 120 and treat the fish in the 40?

Is the tang the only one showing symptoms so far? Do you have any pictures?

 

[Zack K]

First things first.IMO ever and i mean NEVER put copper in your DT. it will seep into rocks, sand , sponges etc. If you do that you will never be able to keep inverts, and corals will not handle it very well. I would suggest QT your tang with some copper and the puffer, blenny, goby in a separate tank. If you want to go with different meds other than copper you can QT them all together. The Puffer will have a hard time handling copper. I know @Humblefish and @melypr1985 can explain this a little better and give you some alternative meds so you can qt them all at once. You are going to want the tank and its inhabitants to go the 76 days fallow to kill the ich bug. Inverts can not carry ich so you are okay their.
Also tanke in to account, "Is it velvet?" if you are unsure you can post a picture to clarify.

 

[ngoodermuth]

^ Coppersafe (chelated copper) would be the best bet if you wanted to try the puffer in copper. Some will tolerate it, some won't. If not, Tank Transfer Method might be an option for him if you can pickup another 10 gallon tank. You could still treat the others in copper.

Read this:
Ich (Cryptocaryon irritans)

https://www.reef2reef.com/index.php?threads/Ich-(Cryptocaryon-irritans).191226/

 

[Bakedpwn]

thanks for the response i will get a pic as best i can.
good idea on moving just the corals and rocks and inverts to 120, only issue is the 120 is bone dry so it need cycling and i cant use my DT water now to cycle cause it would have ich right?
let me go get a picture

no other fish showing symptoms.

 

[ngoodermuth]

You can use your water, because you will have to let the 120 fallow for 76 days anyway. But, then you will have to refill the 40. Make sure you take out all the rock and sand before adding copper. I personally would just pitch the sand from the 40 and start fresh in the 120 if you can, to avoid ammonia spikes from stirring it up. Be careful removing the sand as well, if it's a very established sand bed you might want to do it slowly. Get two ammonia alert badges, one for each tank.

I'd work on filling the 120 with fresh saltwater now. Maybe add a bottle of bacteria (biospira or dr tims) for good measure.

ETA. If it's velvet, you may not have time for all this. In that case, you might be better off finding another QT tank to treat them in. A 40b would be better, but even a 20 could work in a pinch.

 

[Brew12]

thanks for the response i will get a pic as best i can.
good idea on moving just the corals and rocks and inverts to 120, only issue is the 120 is bone dry so it need cycling and i cant use my DT water now to cycle cause it would have ich right?
let me go get a picture

no other fish showing symptoms.

The bacteria you need for your cycle are in your rocks, not in the water. Those rocks are what will also transfer the Ich parasite into the 120g system.

If you are sure this is Ich and not Velvet I would get a large HOB filter for your 40B and move all of the rock, substrate, coral, and inverts out it. See if you can get a local veteranarian to write you a prescription for Cloroquine Phosphate. You can then treat everything in the 40g including the puffer. You will need to maintain them in the 40B for 76 days until the Ich that you transferred into the 120g system with the live rock starves itself out.

The puffer really makes this situation more challenging or you could just use copper.

 

[Bakedpwn]

So going fallow for 76days/ cyccling in the new tank wont kill the live rock but will kill the ich in the liverock?

also is it normal to just ask a vet for an aquarium prescription? they wont make me pay for a consolation or something?

I can get another 10 g and treat the puffer seperatly if that makes this easier.

Also i was planning on ditching 40b sand anyways, alrdy bought some live and dry carib sea for the 120.

 

[Bakedpwn]

waiting for lights to turn on for pic.

 

[Brew12]

So going fallow for 76days/ cyccling in the new tank wont kill the live rock but will kill the ich in the liverock?

We could only wish that bacteria was that easy to kill! Moving the live rock directly into the new tank will preserve the bacteria just fine. They may slow down a little, and something in the tank may eat some of them, but for the most part it will be ready for fish as soon as your 76 days are up. If you are really worried about it you can ghost feed your tank every few days to keep the bacteria population growing.

also is it normal to just ask a vet for an aquarium prescription? they wont make me pay for a consolation or something?

I would expect that they would charge some token fee for a consultation. Unfortunately, many people have found vets unwilling to write prescriptions for fish.

I can get another 10 g and treat the puffer seperatly if that makes this easier.

It would make it easier because you could then treat the 40B with copper. You could also try to treat the puffer with copper in the 40B and use getting a 10g as a backup plan in case the puffer doesn't respond well to the water.

 

[ngoodermuth]

If you try the puffer in copper, and the fish are "stable" enough to allow you the time to do so, just ramp up the copper very slowly. At least half of what the bottle recommends.

I have a known copper-sensitive wrasse in therapeutic levels of copper as we speak. It just took me a good week to get him there, and he only tolerates the minimum therapeutic level.

 

[Bakedpwn]

excellent. so i looked at the kole today and in my head the last time he was covered in white spots. maybe it was the lighting at night being on only blues but all the white spots i saw arent there now...

 

[Bakedpwn]

 

[Bakedpwn]

keep in mind im one of those that over thinks or reacts. all my fish are from same store over the course of 2 years. same place the kole came from. not sure if i have ich or not.

 

[GHsaltie]

Ich will fall off after 3-7 days, if I'm remembering that correctly, as part of its life cycle. However, it's worth taking into consideration that velvet is usually easier to see under blue light. With how prevalent velvet is I think you should try and get them in treatment sooner than later.

 

[ngoodermuth]

Unfortunately, that's more indicative of velvet :/ It has a shorter life cycle so it spends less time on the fish initially...but will come back usually in overwhelming numbers. You'll need to move quickly.

Read this:
Velvet (Amyloodinium ocellatum)

https://www.reef2reef.com/index.php?threads/Velvet-(Amyloodinium-ocellatum).217570/

Particularly post #2 on emergency treatment

 

[Bakedpwn]

ok just read the link on velvet. if it were as bad as what i thought i saw shouldnt he be dead. like the purple tang in the link 12 hours later. and i dont see any discoloration on the fish

 

[Bakedpwn]

got the 120 setup, going to add water here shortly. Wondering what i can buy today in town at like petsmart or petco to treat the velvet or ich?
do those stores sell anything worth while?

 

[Brew12]

got the 120 setup, going to add water here shortly. Wondering what i can buy today in town at like petsmart or petco to treat the velvet or ich?
do those stores sell anything worth while?

I normally pick up my Coppersafe and API copper test kit from Petco.

 

[ngoodermuth]

ok just read the link on velvet. if it were as bad as what i thought i saw shouldnt he be dead. like the purple tang in the link 12 hours later. and i dont see any discoloration on the fish

Not necessarily, there are different strains and the fish's immune system can make a difference as well. It may just be ich though, it's hard to tell at this point.