Lighting spectra, Photosynthesis, and You

  1. Pappy

    Pappy Well-Known Member

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    So that's a no? No pics? Sorry to clarify.....pics of your practical experience....not sure how many ways I can ask the same question.

    Lemme say this(in fear of sounding rude)...I have scrolled through your build threads and pics and after what I've seen I'm not sure that you have practical experience in regards to LEDs, spectra, photosynthesis, etc...yes you know a ton! Wayyyyyy more than I would ever have the time to learn!! I commend you on that BUT have you implemented this information on your personal tank?

    I'm not picking on you here but everytime I see anyone post info I ask for pics and proof it works. Everytime I've asked you specifically the thread goes cold and never a pic:(. I can starve reading a cook book. I could know every recipe in Italian cuisine but if I can't light the stove then it doesn't matter.;)
     
  2. Davesgt

    Davesgt Happy Happy Happy R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Reef Squad Partner Member

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    Great reads on this thread!
     
  3. Pappy

    Pappy Well-Known Member

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    Last edited: Nov 16, 2013
  4. jedimasterben

    jedimasterben Bubble coral sting good

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    I don't understand what you're expecting - I need very, very expensive equipment to measure photosynthetic rates, and as for coloration, Dana Riddle has already done that work gathering data, which is simple to implement since he presents spectral data. That's what this thread is about. If you're looking for a hobbyist with no interest in the science behind what is going on to tell you 'oh yeah, my corals grew great under it, better than ever!' or 'I've never seen colors like this!' or other general statements with no data behind them, you won't find that here.

    I will tell you this - I've designed several commercial fixtures and almost two hundred DIY setups for others, and I've not had one come back to me and tell me that they could not grow or keep coral colorful.
     
  5. KologneKoral

    KologneKoral Active Member

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    Montipora-crassituberculata1-kl.jpg Montipora-crassituberculata2-kl_1.jpg
    I've shown these two fotos on other forums, so do not be surprised if they look familiar.
    The brownish frag was under my 2x 250W 14K + 2x actinic, a classic combination. As you can see, this coral did not particularly colour-up and grow. Unusual for a Montipora. The second shot is about 6 months after changing over to LEDs, at that time a combination of Cree CW, RB and B. Intensities W=50%, Blue = 70%, RB= 70% at the beginning and played with over the next 6 months. In general I only brought the mix a bit up or down, as I learned to get what I wanted to see. End result was a bit less White and a bit more Blue. As this is an over 10 year old reef and pretty stabile, the only real change was the lighting. The results speak for themselves.

    As I did take a lot of notes in my first year with LEDs (still do), the most dramatic items were colour changes in Montipora and Acropora, a huge increase in smaller life forms and sponges, plus my Anthias started spawning with the sunset and almost everyday with eggs. A change had taken place.

    As I see it, yes, the LEDs were the main reason for this improvment, but what actually was taking place was more complex than just spectrum. The intensity had changed, the moon cycle was closer to real, weather patterns were creating dark periods randomly, the sunrise-set effect had set a more natural cycle, etc.

    This underlines the paradigm shift LEDs present. It is not just light, it is much more. It is control.

    Jamie

    Montipora-crassituberculata1-kl.jpg

    Montipora-crassituberculata2-kl_1.jpg
     
    Surfandturf likes this.
  6. revhtree

    revhtree Owner Administrator Staff Member Team R2R R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Photo of the Month Award Article Contributor Partner Member

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    Wow...
     
  7. Pappy

    Pappy Well-Known Member

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    That's awesome! I love when someone can share knowledge AND practical experience with pictures versus just a bunch of data and gibberish. So photosynthesis does happen without a significant amount of reds and violet! I hope others can share pics of their observations how increased/decreased photosynthesis and color in coral regarding certain spectrums or lack of....
     
  8. KologneKoral

    KologneKoral Active Member

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    What may have confused many aquarisat is the assumption that; because a zooxanthellae CAN use red light, that it needs red light. This is simply untrue and, with a bit of logic one can come to this conclusion. Red is attenuated to such a degree by salt water that there is literally none to be used at the depth of greatest coral diversity, which is 20m (65ft). At 5m it is pretty much gone. We find some corals on the reef flat, where they will receive red radiation, but, upon closer inspection we find many of these corals are coloured red, which means they are reflecting away the red, not using it. A strong indication that red light is not important and may present a huge danger to the organism. Coral pigmentation is another chapter that, although linked to available light, needs to be adressed sperately. The mechanisms are not linked to photosynthesis for most pigments (if you were unsure, chlorophyll is a pigment).

    What happens in a petri dish is not what happens on the reef. Corals are very adaptable and, given a chance, most will thrive in a marine system, as long as their basics are met. We are now capable of offering them a great deal more.

    J.
     
  9. Themonsterisme

    Themonsterisme Well-Known Member

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    Ok ok guys...it's time to put up the pocket protectors and go watch football...lol
     
  10. Vwtbug

    Vwtbug Well-Known Member

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    Wow just hope I get what I need from reef breeders just order 48 in led .good read confusing but good thanks
     
  11. Pappy

    Pappy Well-Known Member

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  12. Pappy

    Pappy Well-Known Member

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  13. NanaReefer

    NanaReefer Well-Known Member R2R Supporter

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    I read this too :) Very interesting. Now peps are gonna be removing their red LED's.
     
  14. jedimasterben

    jedimasterben Bubble coral sting good

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    Only if they didn't read the paper that was published and only skimmed the article. :)
     
  15. Genesis Corals

    Genesis Corals Genesis 1:21

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    Exactly, I commented on another thread about this as well. Here is a quote from the article:

    "Note: red light is commonly found in proven lights such as Radium metal halides and numerous fluorescent bulbs as well as in wild reefs, so the idea is not that red light is necessarily harmful but that too much red light can have negative effects on how stony corals regulate photosynthesis."

    I still think with the use of Warm White or Neutral Light LEDs that there is no need to waste a spot on your heatsink for a Red LED, as the former cover that spectrum very well.
     
  16. jedimasterben

    jedimasterben Bubble coral sting good

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    It's those little words 'too much' that only a select few will actually read. The rest of us, though, will carry on like normal :D :llama:
     
  17. Pappy

    Pappy Well-Known Member

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    Actually read....?

    Blue light resulted in highest survival rates, whereas red light resulted in low survival at 256 μmol m−2 s−1.

    The overall article shows that red light negatively effects coral if you actually read the whole thing.
     
  18. Gwitness

    Gwitness Well-Known Member

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    What about Green light?? Just for looks or does it help the corals?? Does it cause bad algae growth? I am just super confused now on what program I should run now on my Radion Gen 2 lights!! LOL....I have royal blue, blue, cool white, green, and red on my program.....Can someone help me on what color I should always have high and actually matters and what colors don't matter or might hurt the corals?? Thanks if anyone replies!
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2014
  19. jedimasterben

    jedimasterben Bubble coral sting good

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    You literally just proved my point.

    Unless you're planning on illuminating your reef with 256mmol of solely 660nm LEDs, then you won't be hurting a **** thing. Do you know how much PAR the average LED array with dedicated red LEDs has just from those red? Less than 10-15, if even that much. Even the long red wavelengths in warmer white LEDs is very low.

    This isnt really the thread for that.
     
  20. Gwitness

    Gwitness Well-Known Member

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    How? That is exactly what is being talked about in some of these comments
     

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