Mini cycle
- Thread starter alicia24
- Start date
- Tagged users None
the safety concern window for your particular tank transfer challenge/moved all waste over/was 24 hours.
if it was going to die from toxins, or ammonia in the sand like so much shale oil (that's what critics believe here) it would have been in the first day.
you simply cannot have an ammonia issue two days ago, or today, or next week. those tank pics will look the same, and nothing the critics have warned is panning out, we can all see it plainly.
taking no action is your wisest move, says the big giant work thread with 100% safe outcomes. maybe lower your lighting a little/late is better than never.
simply focusing on tank pics is how to keep arguments at bay. I realize that after 3 more months and the exact same pics on file, they're still going to say your ammonia was bad/at risk, I know they will never relent (giving advice from the stands is really easy, running work threads isn't)
but in the end, those pics are either going to show a running reef or they aren't.
if it was going to die from toxins, or ammonia in the sand like so much shale oil (that's what critics believe here) it would have been in the first day.
you simply cannot have an ammonia issue two days ago, or today, or next week. those tank pics will look the same, and nothing the critics have warned is panning out, we can all see it plainly.
taking no action is your wisest move, says the big giant work thread with 100% safe outcomes. maybe lower your lighting a little/late is better than never.
simply focusing on tank pics is how to keep arguments at bay. I realize that after 3 more months and the exact same pics on file, they're still going to say your ammonia was bad/at risk, I know they will never relent (giving advice from the stands is really easy, running work threads isn't)
but in the end, those pics are either going to show a running reef or they aren't.
Here's a review from @taricha regarding the Hanna ammonia checker.
Analyzing Hanna Ammonia checker Hi784, chemistry and performance
Hanna's saltwater ammonia checker, Hi784 is out and I wanted to take a look and assess its performance for reef tank water, and see where some interpretation of results might be helpful. This post will include some data on a display tank processing ammonia, and in a later post I'll do a...
www.reef2reef.com
- Joined
- Dec 28, 2016
- Messages
- 22,855
- Reaction score
- 21,988
This is incorrect. IMHO. In this situation every possibility should be tested for - and I would not rely on a forum to tell me what is going on with my tank (absent testing)
EMERGENCY - Crazy Ammonia spike
Hey all, This tank has been up for 1+ year and its been doing great with SPS, LPS etc. Today I had 1 sps peel out and I thought maybe it was the new carbon I changed out, went to rent out a par meter to make sure had them test the water just for ***** and giggles as I test it myself x2 weekly...
www.reef2reef.com
Read that whole thread it comes from my false ammonia stall example.
They reported 2.0 level ammonia, you reported .66 and this thread went into a tailspin
When people report an nh4 reading to me, it's not factored in my troubleshoot, I know they're dependent on testing to feel ok because that's all we've been taught. New cycling science has other ways to predict ammonia status.
Can you see any repeating themes between that thread and this one? Outcome differences? Did my advice change from this one?
This new example didn't even have a single tank change, nothing died. Nothing was stirred up
The test (or how they ran it, might not have prepped reagents correctly, kitchen lighting might be green leds, pick your adulterant) is what's wrong, not the cycle.
Isn't it true if betex simply wasn't running ammonia testing where known cycled rocks are in place, they'd have been much better off? All that arguing, like what we're seeing here, but the requested tank pics simply never changed.
I have maybe fifty more of those direct examples worked fully.
I've seen this case hundreds of times. The outcomes are always the same: nothings going to die.
The fact I've never had a single crash doesn't mean pH protected me for ten straight years of jobs, it meant predicting what ammonia does is simple if you use updated rules.
Ok, done that. Your review of it above is wrong. Seems like a weird choice for you to use as evidence.
I'll just quote your whole statement here for editing surveyance, lol.EMERGENCY - Crazy Ammonia spike
Hey all, This tank has been up for 1+ year and its been doing great with SPS, LPS etc. Today I had 1 sps peel out and I thought maybe it was the new carbon I changed out, went to rent out a par meter to make sure had them test the water just for ***** and giggles as I test it myself x2 weekly...
Read that whole thread it comes from my false ammonia stall example.
They reported 2.0 level ammonia, you reported .66 and this thread went into a tailspin
When people report an nh4 reading to me, it's not factored in my troubleshoot, I know they're dependent on testing to feel ok because that's all we've been taught. New cycling science has other ways to predict ammonia status.
Can you see any repeating themes between that thread and this one? Outcome differences? Did my advice change from this one?
This new example didn't even have a single tank change, nothing died. Nothing was stirred up
The test (or how they ran it, might not have prepped reagents correctly, kitchen lighting might be green leds, pick your adulterant) is what's wrong, not the cycle.
Isn't it true if betex simply wasn't running ammonia testing where known cycled rocks are in place, they'd have been much better off? All that arguing, like what we're seeing here, but the requested tank pics simply never changed.
I have maybe fifty more of those direct examples worked fully.
I've seen this case hundreds of times. The outcomes are always the same: nothings going to die.
The fact I've never had a single crash doesn't mean pH protected me for ten straight years of jobs, it meant predicting what ammonia does is simple if you use updated rules.
Certainly can, it's you. Do I win a prize?
Ok, done that. Your review of it above is wrong. Seems like a weird choice for you to use as evidence.
I'll just quote your whole statement here for editing surveyance, lol.EMERGENCY - Crazy Ammonia spike
Hey all, This tank has been up for 1+ year and its been doing great with SPS, LPS etc. Today I had 1 sps peel out and I thought maybe it was the new carbon I changed out, went to rent out a par meter to make sure had them test the water just for ***** and giggles as I test it myself x2 weekly...
Read that whole thread it comes from my false ammonia stall example.
They reported 2.0 level ammonia, you reported .66 and this thread went into a tailspin
When people report an nh4 reading to me, it's not factored in my troubleshoot, I know they're dependent on testing to feel ok because that's all we've been taught. New cycling science has other ways to predict ammonia status.
Can you see any repeating themes between that thread and this one? Outcome differences? Did my advice change from this one?
This new example didn't even have a single tank change, nothing died. Nothing was stirred up
The test (or how they ran it, might not have prepped reagents correctly, kitchen lighting might be green leds, pick your adulterant) is what's wrong, not the cycle.
Isn't it true if betex simply wasn't running ammonia testing where known cycled rocks are in place, they'd have been much better off? All that arguing, like what we're seeing here, but the requested tank pics simply never changed.
I have maybe fifty more of those direct examples worked fully.
I've seen this case hundreds of times. The outcomes are always the same: nothings going to die.
The fact I've never had a single crash doesn't mean pH protected me for ten straight years of jobs, it meant predicting what ammonia does is simple if you use updated rules.
Certainly can, it's you. Do I win a prize?
Should I water change during a mini cycle
So, I moved some of my rock around after the tank had already cycled. I noticed my water got slightly milky so I tested. I just did a 20% water change and removed a small sponge that I used for mechanical filtration. I also vacuumed sand during water change. Would this cause a mini cycle? Should...
www.reef2reef.com
a twin thread to this one.
Dburr1014
7500 Club Member
I didn't go thru all 4 pages but if the rock was kept wet, this tank will be complete by today or tomorrow. It doesn't take long for moving a tank with everything disturbed.
You're doing a great job at separating the wheat from the chaff in this thread. You are gonna be grand, perhaps start a build thread?
Dburr1014
7500 Club Member
My story, non scientific, years ago when plenum style was fading and deep sand beds were on the rise.
I emptied one tank and dumped it all in another, sandbed and rocks, everything. Smell of rotting eggs in the black parts of the sand. It was so gross and I was pretty new to reefing
Fish and coral I kept in buckets.
I waited 2 days before the fish/coral went in the tank and all was good. I had zero ammonia in two days.
I predict 0 ammonia tomorrow when you test.
I emptied one tank and dumped it all in another, sandbed and rocks, everything. Smell of rotting eggs in the black parts of the sand. It was so gross and I was pretty new to reefing
Fish and coral I kept in buckets.
I waited 2 days before the fish/coral went in the tank and all was good. I had zero ammonia in two days.
I predict 0 ammonia tomorrow when you test.
- Joined
- Jul 16, 2009
- Messages
- 3,245
- Reaction score
- 4,896
Nobody is selling anything, predicting a crash, talking about outbreaks or "broken cycles". Nobody is painting fear. There is no "new science" or "old science". This is all noise injected by you.
The OP moved stuff from one tank to another, including the sand. There is fauna die-off (for many reasons) and stirring of detritus that was trapped. There is a small ammonia spike as the nitrifying bacteria find a new balance. The free ammonia associated with the spike appears to be low enough that it will not be a problem. Stuff is a bit unhappy, as is to be expected. As long as the water chemistry is decent then the new equilibrium should come fairly quickly because this was an established system.
There is no need to make the situation any more complicated than that or attempt to impugn the credibility of anybody offering help here.
- Joined
- Jul 16, 2009
- Messages
- 3,245
- Reaction score
- 4,896
Don't forget to test your fresh salt water for a baseline. As others have indicated things should start to improve.
where live rocks go, any claimed ammonia event that wasn't big enough to kill animals resolves in about 15 minutes, that's the rule. that is why all the outcomes are safe, always, in every case. it's not like she kept stirring the sand here for every day.
there was never a source in that tank for continued unprocessed ammonia beyond the massive command ability from that quality live rock. this tank here has rare quality old school coralline live rock, the fast ammonia resolver we ever needed in any cycle troubleshoot.
when a thread title is about an ammonia test reading, and not a loss of life, that's a signal Ive detected that old cycling science is in play. the thread will then turn into pages and reams of focus on the testing, reverification, battles back and forth while literally any time a pic is posted the tank is simply normal. the keeper will 1000% make purchases to resolve stress that old cycling science gave them. the doubt cycle continues
and, as an impact, 0% worry or planning is given to the reefer about to fully stock a new tank with fish any iota of disease preps. Old cycling science plants false fear in people for consequences we literally can't find, and omits the real things that kill fish in about 8 mos, if ten years of work threads from Jay's disease forum means anything.
that's right where we're at today. fully locked into cycling fear, ignoring mountains of proof to the counter, and not discussing disease whatsoever.
new cycling science: don't test for ammonia ever again on this reef as long as rocks stay wet. you need to aim all this energy + 5 days of self-directed learning in Jay's fish disease forum, you're about to violate fallow and QT as this tank is stocked, and when fish die by September-Dec, and you then take another test reading though I'm telling you not to, you will then be 100% convinced ammonia was the cause.
you will then do loop remedies for a non cause like this thread, buy more fish, and the cycle of loss will not stop until you stop testing for ammonia here and instead manage disease vectoring in the tank.
that's what's coming most likely.
there was never a source in that tank for continued unprocessed ammonia beyond the massive command ability from that quality live rock. this tank here has rare quality old school coralline live rock, the fast ammonia resolver we ever needed in any cycle troubleshoot.
when a thread title is about an ammonia test reading, and not a loss of life, that's a signal Ive detected that old cycling science is in play. the thread will then turn into pages and reams of focus on the testing, reverification, battles back and forth while literally any time a pic is posted the tank is simply normal. the keeper will 1000% make purchases to resolve stress that old cycling science gave them. the doubt cycle continues
and, as an impact, 0% worry or planning is given to the reefer about to fully stock a new tank with fish any iota of disease preps. Old cycling science plants false fear in people for consequences we literally can't find, and omits the real things that kill fish in about 8 mos, if ten years of work threads from Jay's disease forum means anything.
that's right where we're at today. fully locked into cycling fear, ignoring mountains of proof to the counter, and not discussing disease whatsoever.
new cycling science: don't test for ammonia ever again on this reef as long as rocks stay wet. you need to aim all this energy + 5 days of self-directed learning in Jay's fish disease forum, you're about to violate fallow and QT as this tank is stocked, and when fish die by September-Dec, and you then take another test reading though I'm telling you not to, you will then be 100% convinced ammonia was the cause.
you will then do loop remedies for a non cause like this thread, buy more fish, and the cycle of loss will not stop until you stop testing for ammonia here and instead manage disease vectoring in the tank.
that's what's coming most likely.
alicia24
Active Member
Awh thanks! Lol I'm trying to stay out of the debate and just take all the perspectives . I will consider that! Not sure where to do that but I'm sure I can find it on here lol
Similar threads
