Moonshiners method feedback

[rtparty]

Thanks for that observation
Just from reading accounts of people using it, overall many seem to have pretty decent success with RM method but it's very difficult to say if this success is actually from the method or from just having a "method" at all.
Meaning - if someone has a consistent and not terrible game plan and stay with it, they will probably have good results regardless of the exact details. Better than having no particular method, and better than the hobbyist default of testing whenever and changing stuff in your tank whenever the mood strikes you.

My opinion is it’s at least 99%, if not 100%, because people are paying attention far more. Many, many, many KZ users have reported they feel “in tune” with their tank dosing the little blue bottles daily. Much more in tune than before or after using the KZ method at least.

My own experience agrees that simply finding A repeatable and successful method is far more important than the actual method. Especially when that “method” is throw darts in the dark and hope one hits.

I’d venture to bet that anyone who picks up and runs the RM method will find success. Andre has a great system in place. Figuring out if it’s worth it to each individual is the bigger unknown.

 

[Stang67]

Thanks for that observation
Just from reading accounts of people using it, overall many seem to have pretty decent success with RM method but it's very difficult to say if this success is actually from the method or from just having a "method" at all.
Meaning - if someone has a consistent and not terrible game plan and stay with it, they will probably have good results regardless of the exact details. Better than having no particular method, and better than the hobbyist default of testing whenever and changing stuff in your tank whenever the mood strikes you.

Do you use any method and if so what is it. I asked for experiences?

 

[Stang67]

My opinion is it’s at least 99%, if not 100%, because people are paying attention far more. Many, many, many KZ users have reported they feel “in tune” with their tank dosing the little blue bottles daily. Much more in tune than before or after using the KZ method at least.

My own experience agrees that simply finding A repeatable and successful method is far more important than the actual method. Especially when that “method” is throw darts in the dark and hope one hits.

I’d venture to bet that anyone who picks up and runs the RM method will find success. Andre has a great system in place. Figuring out if it’s worth it to each individual is the bigger unknown.

What is your method?

 

[rtparty]

What is your method?

For dosing, it’s the BRS balling hybrid method. Keeps all my elements in line and is way easier than dosing multiple bottles of elements that likely have no serious effect on our inhabitants.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I’ve seen your occasional posts about elements of no known biological role, but is there a summary of those out there by chance? I’m happy to eliminate although the entire process of dosing is 5 mins max per day.

Also, if you have a distinction between ‘definitely no biological role’ and ‘role is unknown’, that would be helpful to see.

There is no element that can be listed as definitely no biological role in any organism as that would require sophisticated experiments on every known organism, but google is pretty good at showing those with no known biological role by searching “biological role of lanthanum” (fill in your preferred element for lanthanum)


This is the sort of answer, which comes from the Royal Society of Chemistry
Lanthanum has no known biological role. Both the element and its compounds are moderately toxic. Lanthanum is found in 'rare earth' minerals, principally monazite (25% lanthanum) and bastnaesite (38% lanthanum).

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Thanks for that observation
Just from reading accounts of people using it, overall many seem to have pretty decent success with RM method but it's very difficult to say if this success is actually from the method or from just having a "method" at all.
Meaning - if someone has a consistent and not terrible game plan and stay with it, they will probably have good results regardless of the exact details. Better than having no particular method, and better than the hobbyist default of testing whenever and changing stuff in your tank whenever the mood strikes you.

Exactly.

It would be hugely beneficial for anyone saying method X works great or method X caused an improvement to state what methodology it is being compared to in the same aquarium.

 

[taricha]

Do you use any method and if so what is it. I asked for experiences?

This below dismissive description was referring to my own reef keeping.

Better than having no particular method, and better than the hobbyist default of testing whenever and changing stuff in your tank whenever the mood strikes you.

My tank would certainly be improved by Reef Moonshiners method, or any other method at all that allowed more consistent regulation of salinity alk, basic parameters etc.
Some of my corals are happy and grow huge, but they are corals that are well adapted to my level of neglect.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Have one box of reef crystals left. I am at the point where I need to decide if I want to try the moonshine method, something else, or keep doing water changes.
180g w 40g sump
Mixed reef atm but would like to get into sticks a bit more.
Medium bioload.
For those of you that Shine do you like it? How long, what other methods have you used.
Pro cons

I have this program and bottles. I did it and it seemed to do well but there were too many supplements such as vanadium, bromide, etc being added and I found it necessary to get ICP tests done to see where those levels were. Many came back high or low and I then reverted to now adding what is deficient with ICP test and use what I need as supplements.

 

[McPuff]

I've been using the system for about a year and a half. I might call it the "light" method but it seems to be going fine. I probably send it ICP 3 times per year.

 

[CNDReef]

I believe the moonshiners is a overall better tool than balling. Each tank is completely different in uptakes of elements and if you base them solely on your alk/calcium uptake you can overdose or not even come close to replenish certain elements. My 40b consumes half of my buddys 180g system alk but i dose 1/16th of the dailies/corrections that he does. If I went off the balling I would be overshooting everything in my tank.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I believe the moonshiners is a overall better tool than balling. Each tank is completely different in uptakes of elements and if you base them solely on your alk/calcium uptake you can overdose or not even come close to replenish certain elements. My 40b consumes half of my buddys 180g system alk but i dose 1/16th of the dailies/corrections that he does. If I went off the balling I would be overshooting everything in my tank.

Which Balling method are you referring to?

Normal Tropic Main Balling Part C (which is just salt mix without sodium chloride) along with calcium chloride and sodium hydroxide/carbonate/bicarbonate is not intended to boost trace elements and will not (should not) offset consumption or other loses.

Do you mean some sort of modified version with added trace elements?

 

[David S]

Funny, the no water change due to using the RM method is not what appealed to me.
What I did, and still like about the RM method is the flexibility of dosing trace elements, individually.
Back in the "old" days, I and many other aquarists might have dosed a supplement of mixed trace elements.
It was assumed they had some benefit for the tank inhabitants.
However, not having a practical way of testing those elements, I would use them sparingly.
Then ICP came around. Now you could see the effects of trace element dosing.
Problem was most trace supplements were grouped. So what would you do if ICP indicated you were deficient in one element but had excess of another element?
Enter Andre with the RM method and the use of individual trace elements, plus dosing recommendations for said elements.
For the record, I stopped water changes for awhile, but have since gone back to them. While I can't say for sure how this has affected the corals, I know that the fish in the tank always perk up after a water change.

 

[mfollen]

The water changes will slightly help reduce any other toxins, POM, DOM, etc

Reefmoonshiner method is not the only method that is bringing individual trace testing and dosing. See captiv8 as well.

I have seen great results on multiple systems using different methods/companies.

 

[David S]

The water changes will slightly help reduce any other toxins, POM, DOM, etc

Reefmoonshiner method is not the only method that is bringing individual trace testing and dosing. See captiv8 as well.

I have seen great results on multiple systems using different methods/companies.

Good point
As a matter of fact, I am currently using several of Captiv8's supplements, Vanadium, Selenium, and Boron.
The Boron will probably last forever - very concentrated.

 

[Stang67]

Isn't captiv8 what Marc Levinson has started using?

 

[hunterallen40]

I think there is a lot that's good about the moonshiner methodology. I follow it myself, with some tweaks.

There is a lot of benefit to it, and I personally would not go back to what I did before, but I honestly believe that 90% of the improvements I've seen from it come from one or two elements. As for which ones... I couldn't tell you, because I have no idea.

I think @Randy Holmes-Farley has singled out Barium before, as an example of an element with no known biological function. I'm sure there are many others as well. I personally never see my vanadium level falling. But that could just me me, I have no idea.

I still like to do a water change every once and a while, by the way. There is nothing that will instantly make your fish / corals look happier than a nice water change.

Reef moonshiner method isn't magic. It is definitely really good though, in my humble experience.

 

[David S]

Isn't captiv8 what Marc Levinson has started using?

Not sure
Keith (Reefbum) uses it- I believe

 

[CNDReef]

Which Balling method are you referring to?

Normal Tropic Main Balling Part C (which is just salt mix without sodium chloride) along with calcium chloride and sodium hydroxide/carbonate/bicarbonate is not intended to boost trace elements and will not (should not) offset consumption or other loses.

Do you mean some sort of modified version with added trace elements?

The new brs balling. The third part isn’t just magnesium, it has a bunch of trace elements that nobody tests for.
To this day I still use your 3part recipe @Randy Holmes-Farley and think it’s the most simplest of ways to keep a reef tank but I also don’t dose anything without testing for it.

 

[hunterallen40]

The new brs balling. The third part isn’t just magnesium, it has a bunch of trace elements that nobody tests for.
To this day I still use your 3part recipe @Randy Holmes-Farley and think it’s the most simplest of ways to keep a reef tank but I also don’t dose anything without testing for it.

You mean the one where you dose the sodium chloride free saltwater (aka tropic marin part C)? I'm a fan of this method, and saw very good results with it.

You dose the 2x the alkalinity dosed (with BRS's alkalinity -- AKA Randy's two part version 1). I set up a doser to watch my Apex DOS logs to dose 2x the amount whenever the DOS ran. This was overkill, but worked like a charm! I did this dailsy before the doser, but, truth be told, I think you would be fine with just a monthly correction.

 

[rtparty]

The new brs balling. The third part isn’t just magnesium, it has a bunch of trace elements that nobody tests for.
To this day I still use your 3part recipe @Randy Holmes-Farley and think it’s the most simplest of ways to keep a reef tank but I also don’t dose anything without testing for it.

BRS balling hybrid is BRS 2 Part (soda ash or bicarbonate, your choice), Tropic Marin Part C, and then A and K Elements from Tropic Marin. You add A to your alkalinity and K to your calcium.

For my tank and many others I help, their recipe is plenty close enough. ICP isn't even accurate enough to really test the vast majority of the elements we dose. Send in two samples taken at the same time and watch the results. You quickly lose trust that ICP testing for our use is super reliable.