It won't change color immediately - it can take several hours. Are any of your fish breathing heavy (a symptom of exposure to ammonia)? Something ain't right, you shouldn't be getting this much ammonia with 7 fish in a 40 breeder.
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It won't change color immediately - it can take several hours. Are any of your fish breathing heavy (a symptom of exposure to ammonia)? Something ain't right, you shouldn't be getting this much ammonia with 7 fish in a 40 breeder.
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melypr1985
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That's what i was thinking! Nobody is breathing heavy. The firefish wasn't even breathing heavy before he died. They are all acting normally.
You might have a bad ammonia alert badge. Has it ever looked yellow? You can test it by placing in some RODI (which should be ammonia free) and see if it turns yellow after a few hours.
I also just read this on Seachem's website: http://www.seachem.com/Products/product_pages/AmmoniaAlert.html
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melypr1985
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Good info! So after reading that the green im seeing could either be bad or normal. I put it in the fresh rodi, like you suggested and this first picture is what it looks like. To me it looks greener than in the picture but its not yellow either. I may be over reacting. It lightened up some when i removed it from the qt too. The second picture is fresh out of the qt.
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melypr1985
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Im confused about why my firefish died. If it wasnt ammonia, then maybe he couldn't handle the copper? Or all the water changes stressed him out?
Both pics are good in my book. You don't have to worry about ammonia unless it turns solid green. The alert badge does take a little getting used to (I forget this sometimes.) In time you will become more comfortable with it.
The firefish might have died from parasites inside the gills (asphyxiation) or it could have been the copper. Copper is a poison, pure and simple. It only works because most fish are able to withstand being in it longer than the parasites. However, there are always going to be copper intolerant fish and sometimes they are not the known copper sensitive species. It varies from fish to fish.
The firefish might have died from parasites inside the gills (asphyxiation) or it could have been the copper. Copper is a poison, pure and simple. It only works because most fish are able to withstand being in it longer than the parasites. However, there are always going to be copper intolerant fish and sometimes they are not the known copper sensitive species. It varies from fish to fish.
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melypr1985
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Ok. That makes me sad though. I ran them all through two rounds of Prazi, then slowly started ramping up the copper. The angel and wrasse are fine (for now- knocks on wood). I'm only just now at therapeutic levels. I guess the ick could have gotten him down, though he showed no signs of it (of course that's normal in some cases i know).
The only other fish showing signs of stress is the kole tang. He's becoming very skittish and seems to hate being in QT. Its probably because of the mild aggression from the PT though right?
When i do water changes, i need to put the copper in the new water before adding it to the tank correct? I didn't do that the first few times, but realized my mistake pretty quickly. Geeze this sounds like a really stupid question even to me.
Most likely. The most important to watch for when treating with copper is that each & every fish is still eating.
Yes. You never want the copper in QT to drop below therapeutic levels (0.35 mg/L for Cupramine) at any time.
I know you are in emergency mode right now, but once this is over you might want to consider TTM for QT'ing all future fish purchases: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/tank-transfer-method.192655/
It's a non-chemical solution to ich, and can be combined with deworming via Prazipro. In just 13 days you have a fish which should be clear of ich & flukes, the two hidden diseases most often missed in QT. After TTM completes, you would just need to observe for two additional weeks to be sure something like velvet or a bacterial infection doesn't surface.
It's a non-chemical solution to ich, and can be combined with deworming via Prazipro. In just 13 days you have a fish which should be clear of ich & flukes, the two hidden diseases most often missed in QT. After TTM completes, you would just need to observe for two additional weeks to be sure something like velvet or a bacterial infection doesn't surface.
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melypr1985
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Yes that was the way i wanted to go but didn't have the means to get it done. I'll be looking into it after this is over. So far, everybody is still eating.
Ahruk
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Tank transfer is definitely the way to go but I can't imagine trying to do it with this many fish (Great for new additions though because you can generally use smaller tanks or even 5 gallon buckets as its for such a short period of time)
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melypr1985
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Wait a sec. I dont have to have it at .5? The bottle's instructions were to get it to .5 for 14 days. Should it be different?
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melypr1985
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I just picked up a new powerfilter to add to what I already have. I also got some Matrix to put in it instead of the filter it comes with. I'm told this Matrix stuff is way better than a simple sponge because its so porous a small amount could take the place of so much sponge or even live rock. Before i put it on the QT I kinda want a green light to do so.
0.35 is the minimum therapeutic range for Cupramine; 0.5 is the maximum (although some like to ramp it up even higher than that.) I would shoot for 0.5 simply because that gives you wiggle room in case it drops a little.
Matrix is fine, but it will still need to be seeded with live bacteria in order to be effective. Do you have any Stability left over? Also, Matrix is made from ceramic (I believe) and that isn't supposed to absorb copper, but I would monitor your levels daily just in case.
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melypr1985
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0.35 is the minimum therapeutic range for Cupramine; 0.5 is the maximum (although some like to ramp it up even higher than that.) I would shoot for 0.5 simply because that gives you wiggle room in case it drops a little.
Matrix is fine, but it will still need to be seeded with live bacteria in order to be effective. Do you have any Stability left over? Also, Matrix is made from ceramic (I believe) and that isn't supposed to absorb copper, but I would monitor your levels daily just in case.
Gotcha. I'll keep it at .5
I dont have any more stability left and i realized i should have bought more after i was half way home. I'll be getting some more tomorrow for sure then all will (hopefully) be right in my fishy world.
Thanks so much for your help!
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melypr1985
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So the hardest parts of this process is 1. keeping up with daily water changes and 2. trying to figure out how much copper to add each time. So I've done the math and i figure that each 5 gallon jug needs 10 drops since the bottle advises 20 drops per 10 gallons. Now, it does say to re-dose that same amount a couple days later, which is where i get confused. I tested my copper levels and they had fallen some, but it was down to .4 so i brought it back up and re tested. I'm wondering ... does copper evaporate out with the fresh water? Or am i not adding the correct amount to the new water during changes?
I've quoted Seachem's Cupramine directions below for reference. It takes 40 drops per 10 gallons (close enough) to achieve an immediate copper concentration of 0.5 mg/L, which is what you should be shooting for. The directions spread it out 20 drops the first day, and then another 20 drops 48 hrs later, so that you slowly raise the Cu level. But once you've already hit 0.5, you want to maintain this - so for water changes, you can dose @ 40 drops per 10 gals (or 4 drops per gallon if you like) in the bucket before adding to the QT.
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melypr1985
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Ok that's where i messed up. Of course! Thanks for keeping my head on straight humblefish!
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melypr1985
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Everyone is doing well at this point. I think i still have 3 days left with the copper and then im done with that. Is there anything i should plan on doing after the copper? Any meds i should run after i take the copper out? Remember i ran them through 2 rounds of prazipro, kanaplex and then 10 days of copper. They will be in the qt for the rest of the fallow period, so I'm wondering if Im done with meds at this point? There had been zero scratching, and Ive watched closley for it.
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