More detail on Flukes

Humblefish · Oct 9, 2015

melypr1985 said:
Everyone is doing well at this point. I think i still have 3 days left with the copper and then im done with that. Is there anything i should plan on doing after the copper? Any meds i should run after i take the copper out? Remember i ran them through 2 rounds of prazipro, kanaplex and then 10 days of copper. They will be in the qt for the rest of the fallow period, so I'm wondering if Im done with meds at this point? There had been zero scratching, and Ive watched closley for it.

The 10 days of copper is still theoretical at this point AND it involves moving the fish to a holding tank for additional observation after the 10 days. Just the fish get moved, nothing else. The theory is that since ich trophonts can only remain on a fish for a maximum of 7 days, once copper has reached therapeutic levels (very important) you can begin a 10 day countdown. Therapeutic levels must remain constant for the entire 10 days. After 10 days any trophonts should have dropped off the fish and copper being present in the water is "the shield", protecting them from reinfection. You never drop the copper level, but after 10 days you move the fish to a non-medicated HT at least 10 feet away from the QT. In essence, you are leaving behind whatever ich remains in the original QT and the presence of copper has shielded your fish from reinfection - affording them a "clean slate" once transferred to the HT. I have tested this theory out on about half a dozen fish so far with active ich & velvet infestations. 100% success rate thus far, but I'm really wanting to test it out on more tangs before I'm ready to publish my findings.

If the above sounds too experimental, stick with 30 days of copper before dropping the levels. That is standard operating procedure for treating ich with copper and it works the vast majority of the time. However, the flaw is if you happen to encounter a strain of ich which takes longer than 30 days for theronts to be released from tomonts... Realizing this flaw is what led me to develop my theory. And why TTM is currently the best way to treat ich. Until I prove my theory anyway.

melypr1985 · Oct 9, 2015

Man! I wish i could do TTM. I picked up another tank for this reason, but it needs to be resealed (i got it for free). I'm glad i asked. I guess I'll be running copper for the full 30 days or more to be sure they stay cured. It would also take time (and money) to get more equipment for another QT. Thanks humblefish!

melypr1985 · Oct 17, 2015

My fish have been in the QT with full copper at .5 for 15 days now. I just tested again to be sure and it's right there perfect. My problem? My yellow coris wrasse is still scratching occasionally. I just saw him dive down and scratch against the sand in his "sand box". I knew i had seen him do it before, but it was in the corner of my eye and i couldn't be sure. So, is this just a normal deal for a wrasse? Or is the ick still in his gills? None of the other fish are scratching at all and seem to be fine. Well.... the pygmy angel might be losing it's mind, but he's going back to the fish store soon anyway. Any thoughts on why my wrasse is still scratching?

Humblefish · Oct 17, 2015

It's possible he still has an itching sensation from where ich was feeding on his skin/gills. New skin is growing back over the damaged areas... akin to how your skin feels itchy after a sunburn and you start peeling.

melypr1985 · Oct 18, 2015

Humblefish said:
It's possible he still has an itching sensation from where ich was feeding on his skin/gills. New skin is growing back over the damaged areas... akin to how your skin feels itchy after a sunburn and you start peeling.

That makes total sense! Thanks!

melypr1985 · Oct 23, 2015

My clowns are acting funny. They arn't sick- no heavy breathing, scratching, discoloration ect. I've seen similar behavior before in my clowns (years ago) before they started laying eggs. The male is guarding a spot in the Qt and both are cleaning the glass right there in that one spot. The only one that moves away is the female but she comes right back and tenderly cleans the glass with the male. So..... my gut says they are prepping to start laying eggs. Where i get confused is... they are in .5 copper! in a QT with 4 other fish! I'm not going to start trying to raise any fry (if that's what is happening here) until they get really good at it and i have them back in the DT. But is this really possible? Laying eggs in a QT full of copper? Would the eggs even be viable with the copper in there? My fish are so weird.

melypr1985 · Dec 13, 2015

Just to update this. I moved my cardinal and coris wrasse over to the DT on Friday I think it was. Well, I had trouble catching the wrasse and I'm afraid I damaged him in doing so. He was really confused looking the first day and I didn't see him much yesterday as I was gone most of it. Today I finally see him and he's struggling on the sand in the back of some rocks. He's still alive and wont let me catch him. I'm sad. he's been with me the longest except for my clowns.

I'm not sure if i should put him out of his misery, or just wait and see what happens. I dont think there is much else I can do for him at this point.

melypr1985 · Dec 13, 2015

aaaannd now he has disappeared. no idea where he went.

Humblefish · Dec 13, 2015

He probably burrowed into the sand. I agree not much you can do at this point except wait & see. How exactly did you damage him? Did you pin him with a net or something? Sucks but it happens.

melypr1985 · Dec 13, 2015

Humblefish said:
He probably burrowed into the sand. I agree not much you can do at this point except wait & see. How exactly did you damage him? Did you pin him with a net or something? Sucks but it happens.

He's resting on the sand. he was scooting away from the hermits. He's visible now and still breathing. I can see the damage. It's on the left side pectoral fin. The fin is damaged and there is an injury just behind it.

You called it. I was trying to net him quickly so as not to stress out all the other fish, pinned him with the net against the glass. I'm so mad at myself for this. just sucks.

Humblefish · Dec 13, 2015

melypr1985 said:
He's resting on the sand. he was scooting away from the hermits. He's visible now and still breathing. I can see the damage. It's on the left side pectoral fin. The fin is damaged and there is an injury just behind it.

You called it. I was trying to net him quickly so as not to stress out all the other fish, pinned him with the net against the glass. I'm so mad at myself for this. just sucks.

I would get him back in the QT to heal if you can.

I've pinned more fish than I care to remember with nets.

So nowadays I just go slow & easy, and my wife has to calm me down when I start cursing at the fish.

Not entirely relevant, but I've found fish don't get their scales/spines caught as often when using a fine mesh net (brine shrimp net is ideal.) I also like using a square colander when the situation allows (in QT.)

melypr1985 · Dec 13, 2015

I'm trying to get him out from behind these rocks. it doesnt help that he's not swimming at all, just kind of laying there out of reach. I'm work'n on it though. Poor guy

melypr1985 · Dec 13, 2015

I do have a fine mesh net.... its blue. I got him though. Hes back in qt and still has some fight left in him. Ill watch it to see if it gets infected. These didn't turn out as good as I thought when they were on my phone. He's missing some scales and there is an injury just next to the pectoral fin.

Humblefish · Dec 13, 2015

Fish vitamins if he resumes eating and antibiotics if an infection develops. You know the drill.

But I'm sorry you're having to go thru this.

It happens sometimes; don't beat yourself up too hard about it. I've done it many, many times.

melypr1985 · Dec 13, 2015

Humblefish said:
Fish vitamins if he resumes eating and antibiotics if an infection develops. You know the drill. But I'm sorry you're having to go thru this. It happens sometimes; don't beat yourself up too hard about it. I've done it many, many times.

Thank you. I know it, but the drill sucks sometimes. lol He's my second oldest fish. On the possitive side though, at least he's not battling any other infections or parasites at the same time!!

Humblefish · Dec 13, 2015

melypr1985 said:
Thank you. I know it, but the drill sucks sometimes. lol He's my second oldest fish. On the possitive side though, at least he's not battling any other infections or parasites at the same time!!

The latter makes it much more likely that your fish will recover if he's not injured too badly.

D block · Dec 13, 2015

Humblefish said:
have tested this theory out on about half a dozen fish so far with active ich & velvet infestations. 100% success rate thus far, but I'm really wanting to test it out on more tangs before I'm ready to publish my findings.

That's cool. Do you know who is going to publish your work? Have you had anything published yet?

melypr1985 · Dec 13, 2015

D block said:
That's cool. Do you know who is going to publish your work? Have you had anything published yet?

Just about every sticky in this part of the forum is done by Humble. Also, check out reefedition.com to find articles by humble as well.

He's kinda a rockstar

Humblefish · Dec 13, 2015

D block said:
That's cool. Do you know who is going to publish your work? Have you had anything published yet?

I guess "publish" was a bit of an overstatement. I just write threads based on my experiences and findings. Maybe someday I'll compile it all into a book.