New Nitrifying Bacteria Experiment.

[Dan_P]

Experiment 8 results

1. When I pulled the rocks out a day or so ago - they 'smelled'. before the first scrubbing - suggesting some 'stuff' was killed.
2. I really scrub this last time
3. Here are the results:

Interesting aroma observation. I had heterotrophic biofilms on glass that appeared to suffer when transferred from aquarium water to Instant Ocean. Might be a parallel here…or a coincidence.

 

[MnFish1]

Both chemicals are used quite a bit and believed/hoped not to affect the nitrifyers. Your test bed might confirm the no harm conjecture. I think a popular dose of Hydrogen peroxide is 1 mL 3% in 10 gallons but @Brandon is closer to this subject.

Meaning @brandon429

 

[Dan_P]

Meaning @brandon429

Fixed it just now

 

[Coxey81]

So the question for today is - try the tap water rinse? - or the RODI rinse - or another experiment - you guys tell me @Coxey81, @sixty_reefer, @brandon429, @Dan_P, @Garf, @Rmckoy, @Lasse - we now have 2 tanks that can process repeatedly - 2 ppm Ammonia.

I say RODI if you think it won't have any effect.

Then do tap next.

 

[MnFish1]

I say RODI if you think it won't have any effect.

Then do tap next.

I'm tempted to take the rock out - and scrub - then rinse with chlorinated tap water - at 78

 

[Coxey81]

I'm tempted to take the rock out - and scrub - then rinse with chlorinated tap water - at 78

Go for it, whatever ya wanna do man.

 

[brandon429]

Jon Malkersons seneye thread shows the baseline averages for nh3 conversion briefly being boosted, more efficient, after an initial dose of one mil per ten gallons. Opposite of stressed, aerobes boosted. Jay found direct stress when he tested and what differed in the two experiments was Jon dosed a reef and Jay was dosing and testing some container that wasn’t a cycled reef, replete with protective scums and films and organics, I believe this context matters. All our other peroxide threads lacked seneye testing so we can see precise changes we’ve been judging safety based on consistent tank presentations after dosing such as clean water, happy animals/ all subjective evals but still in very consistent patterning tank to tank

a going theory is that any decent ruining of filtration is going to show some water clarity changing or fish behavior changes, I personally don’t buy into symptomless nh3 poisoning I think it’ll look like kidney failure in some way when it occurs in a reef tank / the sensitive animals will show sustained nh3 control losses.

a dog losing its kidney function is lethargic, non feeding, dies soon and fish and inverts will do something marked just the same if their surrounding are nh3 + with sustained bad changes, thats my tie - in bet.

 

[brandon429]

I like reading the summary of your findings here MN if you tested chemi clean and peroxide I would enjoy seeing your findings

very nice Api convincing readings and baselines here.

 

[MnFish1]

I like reading the summary of your findings here MN if you tested chemi clean and peroxide I would enjoy seeing your findings

very nice Api convincing readings and baselines here.

Give me a suggestion for tomorrow - I have 125 H2O2 - and some chemiclean. So - Name your poison. I could also rinse the rock with tap-water. BTW - my planned last experiment was to go ahead and bleach the rock - as another control

 

[brandon429]

I honestly dont know how to get api to shift between high and low thousandths ppm based on dosings of peroxide in test….Jay was using the hach meter and Jon had the seneye…perhaps api and the way you are able to show clear zero ammonia baselines with it can be used to reflect loss of nitrifiers based on overdoses / I wouldn’t expect a mini reef model using a strong degree of aged live rock like you’ve been using here to show much change at 1:10 mls of 3% per ten gallons, I guess if it does show a spike in ammonia that will give a new plot to inspect. Jon’s rocks weren’t loaded with algae they were regular reef rocks with coralline, dying plants from a peroxide zap sure might confound a nitrifier assessment by spiking api/ just guessing

 

[HomebroodExotics]

Cool testing, I’ve enjoyed reading.

 

[MnFish1]

Experiment 9 - will start later this afternoon - and will update parameters once started:

1. Rinse rock with chlorinated tap water (tank temperature)
2. Scrub - 2-3 minutes - each rock
3. Rinse with Chlorinated tap water
4. Replace in tank - add 2 ppm ammonia

It would be nice to have more discussion about what we're hoping to find by adding chemiclean or H2O2 - and the best way to do it.

@Lasse, @Coxey81, @sixty_reefer, @brandon429, @Garf, @Rmckoy, @Dan_P - and anyone else!!

 

[MnFish1]

Guys - I decided to do the scrubbing//experiment tomorrow AM due to an appt.

 

[MnFish1]

Experiment 9 done 9AM today.

1. Scrubbed rock 2-3 minutes
2, Rinsed in warm (tank temp) Chlorinated tap water (no Chrloramine) 3 minutes
3. Rinsed in Fresh tank water
4. Placed in tank with new water - 2 ppm ammonia.

Note in the pictures - the pH and ammonia look slightly different - this is due to lighting - rather than an actual difference - but I did mark the differences on the chart

Tank 1 and 2 - Pre ammonia

Tank 1 and 2 after ammonia

Ammonia after addition

 

[MnFish1]

Experiment 9 done 9AM today.

1. Scrubbed rock 2-3 minutes
2, Rinsed in warm (tank temp) Chlorinated tap water (no Chrloramine) 3 minutes
3. Rinsed in Fresh tank water
4. Placed in tank with new water - 2 ppm ammonia.

Note in the pictures - the pH and ammonia look slightly different - this is due to lighting - rather than an actual difference - but I did mark the differences on the chart

Tank 1 and 2 - Pre ammonia

Tank 1 and 2 after ammonia

Ammonia after addition

Well. The 24 hour results and pictures were done at 9. But I did not have time to post them. BUT. Significant. Tank 1 is still at 1 ppm. Tank 2 is between .5 and 1. Seachem is between safe and alert for both. More testing and photos to come later

 

[MnFish1]

Well. The 24 hour results and pictures were done at 9. But I did not have time to post them. BUT. Significant. Tank 1 is still at 1 ppm. Tank 2 is between .5 and 1. Seachem is between safe and alert for both. More testing and photos to come later

The 36 hour results - show the same - I did not check the API ammonia - as the Seachem alerts were still between safe and alert. In any case - pictures to follow tomorrow AM - BUT - THE KEY - RINSING WITH TAP WATER SEEMS TO HAVE DRASTICALLY CHANGED THE ammonia processing capability of both tanks!!!!

 

[Garf]

The 36 hour results - show the same - I did not check the API ammonia - as the Seachem alerts were still between safe and alert. In any case - pictures to follow tomorrow AM - BUT - THE KEY - RINSING WITH TAP WATER SEEMS TO HAVE DRASTICALLY CHANGED THE ammonia processing capability of both tanks!!!!

But freshwater ain’t supposed to make a difference, lol.

 

[MnFish1]

But freshwater ain’t supposed to make a difference, lol.

But it did. in both tanks. It is the first time in a couple weeks that all the ammonia was not processed within 24 hours. This AM Everything is at 0. Pictures in next post.

 

[MnFish1]

Experiment 9 Summary (Rinsing both sets of rock with chlorinated tap water and scrubbing.

1. The ammonia at the start - as in the other experiments was 2. After scrubbing and rinsing
2. At 24 hours - in contrast to all the other iterations with salt-water rinse and saltwater rinse and scrub - there was still between 0.5 and 1 ppm residual ammonia.
3. By 48 hours all the ammonia was processed.

Here are the numbers and pictures from yesterday and today. 24 and 48 hours

24 Hour Pictures:

\

48 Hr Pictures

 

[MnFish1]

Experiment 9 conclusions:

1a. Tank Temperature tap-water scrub and rinse affects ability of rock to process ammonia
- OR -
1b. Tap-water rinse killed off some other 'living things' that resulted in higher ammonia levels that required processing.
2. In distinction to @sixty_reefer's experiment, there was no 'bacterial bloom - so my guess is that 1a is correct.
3. The experiment will be replicated - after its again proven that the rock can process 2 ppm ammonia.
4. Both the Seachem Alert and API tests continue to be reliable.

Any Comments - @Lasse, @Coxey81, @sixty_reefer, @brandon429, @Dan_P, @RMccoy, @Garf etc etc etc.