Newbie: Overflow Water Level / Sump

[johnbr]

He can't move the tank to install a new return line, so he is stuck with a single drain line, so he can't run a siphon.

Here's wild and crazy idea.....use the 3/4" for siphon, use the 1" for emergency, get some flex 3/4" pipe and pop a hole in the drywall under sump. Pop a hole above the tank and drop a fish...tie off the flex and fish it up...hook it up and voila! You are plumbed!!

Guys to each one of you,

After spending hours and hours playing. I had I guy from world wide corals stopping by yesterday to take a look at my situation. Long story short after 3 hours he said that no matter what I'll have those bubbles and the reason is the Vectra M1 even only 20% of power was to much flow for the drain line. So the ONLY way that I could leave the tank dead silent is that right now I have to use the Vectra only at 10% which is still a lottt of flow.

My main concern was if that would be enough to get a good filtration cycle and he sad that in 20 years doing this I should be fine since there's still lots of flow.

Tell what you guys think?

Tank is running now for almost 48 hours.

Thanks again

 

[Steve Jewell]

Flow should be 10x or less of your DT. What is the size of your tank?
I had those same bubbles in my sump. Converting to Herbie, they are gone. The reason you are getting the big bubbles is that your drain is going in and out of siphon. Slowing your flow should make it better!

 

[Steve Jewell]

John,
Here's a great reference I found on the net. I think you can get 600gal/hr through a 1" durso if I remember right.
http://gmacreef.com/aquarium-overflows-durso-herbie-and-bean-setups/

 

[johnbr]

Flow should be 10x or less of your DT. What is the size of your tank?
I had those same bubbles in my sump. Converting to Herbie, they are gone. The reason you are getting the big bubbles is that your drain is going in and out of siphon. Slowing your flow should make it better!

Hey Steve,

I could try that. I just really don't to cut anything else (kinda tired already). The then is 120 Gallon 48x24x24

John,
Here's a great reference I found on the net. I think you can get 600gal/hr through a 1" durso if I remember right.
http://gmacreef.com/aquarium-overflows-durso-herbie-and-bean-setups/

I'm not sure what a flow per hour I get using the slowest settings in the Vectra. I saw this link but since I only have one drain I'm stuck with the durso. If the vectra even at 10% of the speed can do it's work I'm happy then. Don't see the reason what I would want it crazy fast.

 

[SGREEFER310]

Gate valves on return and drain side would help.

 

[johnbr]

Gate valves on return and drain side would help.

I could try to do a gate for the drain line and play opening / closing and adjusting the speed in the vectra to get more movement on the surface of the tank. The question do I REALLY need that much speed in the vectra?

 

[SGREEFER310]

I could try to do a gate for the drain line and play opening / closing and adjusting the speed in the vectra to get more movement on the surface of the tank. The question do I REALLY need that much speed in the vectra?

Yea trust me it would help a lot with controlling the water flow going through the sump and if you get one on the vectras side would help with the flow the vectra is returning to the tank.

 

[johnbr]

Yea trust me it would help a lot with controlling the water flow going through the sump and if you get one on the vectras side would help with the flow the vectra is returning to the tank.

How am I going to connect the drain line since I have just one to the side of the vectra? Splitting the drain line? I also don't have enough space in the pump chamber.

But my question remains do I need tons of flow?

Does anyone knows where can I find a flow chart for the M1 pump at each speed?

 

[SGREEFER310]

Hmmmm email the company I'm sure they can give you a estimate of how much it puts out at several levels

 

[johnbr]

Hmmmm email the company I'm sure they can give you a estimate of how much it puts out at several levels

Sorry for another question but how much flow per hour do I need? I might try adding a valve in the drain line and play valve x pump speed and see what happens.

 

[TaylorPilot]

Yea, that is kind of what I was saying. The Vectra is ALLOT for a 1.25" open channel. I would higher discourage putting any kind of restrictive valve on a single drain line. You have to have a secondary line if something changes. Any little bit of anything gets in the line and your on your way to a flood. Splitting the flow, running stand pipes and adding vents on the returns is about all you can do to lessen the bubbles. I would seriously consider pulling the tank out. Adding a return line up the back of the tank and converting the smaller of the two lines into a full siphon with a ball valve. In my experience, you are going to have bubbles, maybe not major, but some, at anything over 300-400 gallons. A siphon is the only true way to get that system running quietly. Is it in your living room? If it annoys your gf/wife, you won't have it long...LOL We call it the WAF. Wife Approval Factor.

 

[Steve Jewell]

John you are fine brother. At 120 gal really 5x turnover in the sump is fine. The water needs to be slow enough to process. Much higher flow in the DT with your wavemakers. Keep the durso but scour the net and ask questions here. Someone will figure out how to tune your durso just fine so that you don't pop and gurgle all the time. If you haven't trimmed your drains in your sump, I would. Make them only 1" deep in the sump.
At 5 feet your vectra can produce 1600 gph. At 10% wouldn't you only be at 160 gph etc...I think your max would be 40% and that is with 3/4" output.
https://ecotechmarine.com/products/vectra

 

[johnbr]

Yea, that is kind of what I was saying. The Vectra is ALLOT for a 1.25" open channel. I would higher discourage putting any kind of restrictive valve on a single drain line. You have to have a secondary line if something changes. Any little bit of anything gets in the line and your on your way to a flood. Splitting the flow, running stand pipes and adding vents on the returns is about all you can do to lessen the bubbles. I would seriously consider pulling the tank out. Adding a return line up the back of the tank and converting the smaller of the two lines into a full siphon with a ball valve. In my experience, you are going to have bubbles, maybe not major, but some, at anything over 300-400 gallons. A siphon is the only true way to get that system running quietly. Is it in your living room? If it annoys your gf/wife, you won't have it long...LOL We call it the WAF. Wife Approval Factor.

Yeah Taylor,

At this point the tank already started to cycle and I don't anyone to help me in this case. But so far there's no bubbles even at 20% speed for the vectra which is a lot believe me. That pump is a monster. I putted my hand in the sump and the water was coming really strong.

John you are fine brother. At 120 gal really 5x turnover in the sump is fine. The water needs to be slow enough to process. Much higher flow in the DT with your wavemakers. Keep the durso but scour the net and ask questions here. Someone will figure out how to tune your durso just fine so that you don't pop and gurgle all the time. If you haven't trimmed your drains in your sump, I would. Make them only 1" deep in the sump.
At 5 feet your vectra can produce 1600 gph. At 10% wouldn't you only be at 160 gph etc...I think your max would be 40% and that is with 3/4" output.
https://ecotechmarine.com/products/vectra

Steve thanks,

Right now both mp40's are doing their jog at lagoon settings I guess. The durso was raised a little and now the tank is DEAD silent. Off course I have to keep the pump in the same pace and that's why I was concern 10% now being enough to circulate the water.

 

[TaylorPilot]

Yeah Taylor,

At this point the tank already started to cycle and I don't anyone to help me in this case. But so far there's no bubbles even at 20% speed for the vectra which is a lot believe me. That pump is a monster. I putted my hand in the sump and the water was coming really strong.



Steve thanks,

Right now both mp40's are doing their jog at lagoon settings I guess. The durso was raised a little and now the tank is DEAD silent. Off course I have to keep the pump in the same pace and that's why I was concern 10% now being enough to circulate the water.

Then I would just keep on keeping on. He was right above. You do not need tons of flow through your sump.

 

[johnbr]

Then I would just keep on keeping on. He was right above. You do not need tons of flow through your sump.

But running my pump at slowest settings will also give a good filtration for the water? I don't want my creatures to die you know?

 

[TaylorPilot]

The only advantage to running it higher is when you have allot of suspended stuff in the water. Like after you stir your gravel, or scrap your glass/scrub algae off rocks. In that case, you can turn your pump up for a little bit while everything gets caught in the socks, then turn it back down to normal. As far as the effects on your skimmer, fuge, reactors....It won't effect their ability to work at all. IMHO

 

[johnbr]

The only advantage to running it higher is when you have allot of suspended stuff in the water. Like after you stir your gravel, or scrap your glass/scrub algae off rocks. In that case, you can turn your pump up for a little bit while everything gets caught in the socks, then turn it back down to normal. As far as the effects on your skimmer, fuge, reactors....It won't effect their ability to work at all. IMHO

Again sorry for all the questions guys,

Since I still have a lot of dust from the new sand would be a good thing to increase the flow I little bit to hep clear the water. I'll look into that.

Thanks

 

[TaylorPilot]

Depends on if its going right through the socks...it just needs to settle out

 

[Matthew Frost]

Hey John, I'm glad you got it worked out. Just takes a little trial and error and some patience, but like I said, we'll get you there. As far as flow through your sump, keep in mind the equipment in that sump can only process so much water per hour. Example, your skimmer may only be able to process 450 gph, does it make sense to move 900 gallons of water per hour through that sump? No, your just pushing 450 gallons of unfiltered/unskimmed water back up to the tank every hour. Try and tune the water moving through your sump to the equipment you have so your pushing the cleanest possible water back to the tank. Manage your water movement with wavemakers, that also helps you keep all that gunk suspended in the water until it can make it's way down to that sump and be removed from the system.

 

[johnbr]

Hey John, I'm glad you got it worked out. Just takes a little trial and error and some patience, but like I said, we'll get you there. As far as flow through your sump, keep in mind the equipment in that sump can only process so much water per hour. Example, your skimmer may only be able to process 450 gph, does it make sense to move 900 gallons of water per hour through that sump? No, your just pushing 450 gallons of unfiltered/unskimmed water back up to the tank every hour. Try and tune the water moving through your sump to the equipment you have so your pushing the cleanest possible water back to the tank. Manage your water movement with wavemakers, that also helps you keep all that gunk suspended in the water until it can make it's way down to that sump and be removed from the system.

Thanks again Matt,

And guys I'm planning on do a thread build showing the tank and all it's process how it's doing all sorts of things. Would you guys help me there in case I'm doing something wrong or some tips and improvements? I''ll much appreciated.

@Matthew Frost @TaylorPilot @Steve Jewell