Please Help ID, Ich, Velvet, or Brooke’s

[amazingdude5]

Hi,



This afternoon I lost my favorite, a black ice snowflake clown to an unknown disease. She was breathing very heavy, resting on the sand bed. Before death, she started swimming “possessed” and flying into rocks while doing flips, etc. I thought it was brooks as it looked like mucus coming off the skin as well. Now, my flasher wrasse has white “salt spots” covering it. This leads me to believe it is Ich. I gave the clown a freshwater bath but it did not save it. She also had white spots. Does my wrasse have Ich or brooklynella? I don’t want to lose another one. I added a diamond goby last week without QT (this was my QT lesson, dumb I know). If it is ich, is it worth it to start a QT tank ASAP and buy medicine? Please help. I am in analysis paralysis and have no idea what to do next. Please help save Clifford.

 

[blaxsun]

#fishmedic

 

[fishguy242]

Hi ,welcome to the reef...Sorry to see,
I would say yes prepare for QT tank ,going fallow for 72 days JMO.
Let the experts diagnose and go from there ,if you can add more info would help ,
Tank size ? inverts? how many other fish in tank ? best wishes...

Some Helpful Hints When Posting or Responding to Threads in the Fish Disease Treatment and Diagnosis Section

Aquarium Fish Disease Problem Solving Determining the best course of action for a problem with your aquarium can be a difficult task. Even advanced aquarists will often need to seek the help of others for complicated or unique issues. Our intent here on Reef 2 Reef is to offer expert advice...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[C4ctus99]

I’m sorry for your loss, those clownfish are cool.

Can you take some pictures under white light and a video? The blue lights make it harder for the fish medics to diagnose

 

[Jay Hemdal]

While waiting on better pictures - it does look like your wrasse has ich.

Is the diamond goby doing well?
Could the clownfish have had ich, but maybe you missed seeing the spots?
Is the wrasse eating?
Can you see rapid breathing on the wrasse (tougth to see) or the goby?

It is possible for more than one disease to be active in a tank at a given time - the clown could have died from Brooklynella, but the wrasse now has ich.

Jay

 

[amazingdude5]

Hi,
Thanks for the responses. I will work on getting a white light video posted. This diseases took the goby this morning, it is killing quick. I’m guessing the Goby brought it in, as everyone has been doing great recently until his addition. The goby was breathing rapidly and slithering like a snake in place when I went to bed last night, dead in the morning. The wrasse ate this morning and is currently in the tank with lights off. I suspected velvet as of this morning because of how fast it has taken 2 fish and infected the 3rd.
Clownfish had a few spots at time of death, but also had slimy skin appearance.
The wrasse does appear to be “out of breath” like he ran a 5K.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Hi,
Thanks for the responses. I will work on getting a white light video posted. This diseases took the goby this morning, it is killing quick. I’m guessing the Goby brought it in, as everyone has been doing great recently until his addition. The goby was breathing rapidly and slithering like a snake in place when I went to bed last night, dead in the morning. The wrasse ate this morning and is currently in the tank with lights off. I suspected velvet as of this morning because of how fast it has taken 2 fish and infected the 3rd.
Clownfish had a few spots at time of death, but also had slimy skin appearance.
The wrasse does appear to be “out of breath” like he ran a 5K.

Ouch - sorry to hear and I do see ich which was not noticeable a couple of days ago.

 

[nereefpat]

The wrasse has ich, it looks like.

Death from ich is pretty slow, so there must be something else going on. I would set up a QT and start immediate treatment with copper. Treatment of ich and velvet is basically the same, so I would get copper power or coppersafe going in a QT today.

 

[amazingdude5]

Here are videos of the two remaining. I just bought a QT tank with HOB filter, air pump, and heater. I will be using coppersafe for treatment. Anything else I should know before getting them in the QT? Planning to start at 2ppm copper.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Here are videos of the two remaining. I just bought a QT tank with HOB filter, air pump, and heater. I will be using coppersafe for treatment. Anything else I should know before getting them in the QT? Planning to start at 2ppm copper.

So now - the white spots seen in the first picture aren't very evident in the video. With the later reported rapid breathing symptoms, I can't rule out velvet. Either way, copper would be my go-to treatment choice.

Please understand though, once fish loss has taken place due to a protozoan disease, it is very difficult to stop it in time. Coppersafe takes around 3 days to really effect a cure. You'll likely lose more/all fish before you get the treatment started. I know this sounds really pessimistic, but I've seen it so often, that I always warn folks about the possible outcomes.....

Jay

 

[amazingdude5]

So now - the white spots seen in the first picture aren't very evident in the video. With the later reported rapid breathing symptoms, I can't rule out velvet. Either way, copper would be my go-to treatment choice.

Please understand though, once fish loss has taken place due to a protozoan disease, it is very difficult to stop it in time. Coppersafe takes around 3 days to really effect a cure. You'll likely lose more/all fish before you get the treatment started. I know this sounds really pessimistic, but I've seen it so often, that I always warn folks about the possible outcomes.....

Jay

Thank you for your honesty, they both ate a few hours ago and are still swimming fine so I am optimistic. I will reply with an update once they get into QT.

 

[amazingdude5]

Both are in QT, after completely ripping apart my tank to catch the wrasse. Broke a nice sps into pieces in the process. Clifford the wrasse is doing just ok. He’s laying on the bottom, still breathing, right side up, hiding behind some PVC. I can tell the chase was stressful for him. He was pale afterwards. Hoping he is just resting as it is his normal bedtime. Tommy the clown is doing much better, swimming around and overall doing well. I treated the QT with the recommended dose of coppersafe. Praying they’re still with us in the morning. What are some signs of improvement I should be looking for, anything in particular?

 

[C4ctus99]

Hopefully the chase wasn’t too bad for the wrasse, lots of extra stress. From what I’ve seen in my very short and limited time in the hobby, fish swimming around and eating are decent signs they aren’t stressed, I tend to worry if they sit in a corner or hide if I’m not there.

keep an eye on amonia, when I set up a QT, I got the fluval ceramic biomedia and a bottle of seachem stability. The ceramic media because it won’t soak up the copper and the stability to add nitrifying bacteria. I think most people use microbacter 7 or fritz normally and that is probably a better recommendation, but I’ve used stability without issue on multiple occasions now.

 

[amazingdude5]

Lunch update: Both made it through the night and are doing decent. Clifford has improved since originally being placed in QT. He is very lethargic just resting on the bottom. He gave me a little bit of swimming low to the bottom just now. Tommy behavior wise (the clown) is doing great. Swimming but definitely prefers the surface. He has the infection bad, looks like minor mucus peeling. Hoping to get them to eat tonight and a decent sized water change. How many days of QT until I begin to get optimistic?

 

[C4ctus99]

Lunch update: Both made it through the night and are doing decent. Clifford has improved since originally being placed in QT. He is very lethargic just resting on the bottom. He gave me a little bit of swimming low to the bottom just now. Tommy behavior wise (the clown) is doing great. Swimming but definitely prefers the surface. He has the infection bad, looks like minor mucus peeling. Hoping to get them to eat tonight and a decent sized water change. How many days of QT until I begin to get optimistic?

Considering Jay said it takes about 3 days for copper to take full effect, probably if they make it till then. Glad to hear they are doing better! And yeah, clowns gonna clown

keep us updated!

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Lunch update: Both made it through the night and are doing decent. Clifford has improved since originally being placed in QT. He is very lethargic just resting on the bottom. He gave me a little bit of swimming low to the bottom just now. Tommy behavior wise (the clown) is doing great. Swimming but definitely prefers the surface. He has the infection bad, looks like minor mucus peeling. Hoping to get them to eat tonight and a decent sized water change. How many days of QT until I begin to get optimistic?

Peeling mucus is the classic sign of Brooklynella. Copper won't help with that much, if at all. I'm worried you might have multiple issues here.

Brooklynella is difficult to cure now that formalin isn't as widely available. Ruby Reef Rally Pro has worked for some folks. I don't think you should combine that with copper though. Let's ask @vetteguy53081


Jay

 

[vetteguy53081]

Peeling mucus is the classic sign of Brooklynella. Copper won't help with that much, if at all. I'm worried you might have multiple issues here.

Brooklynella is difficult to cure now that formalin isn't as widely available. Ruby Reef Rally Pro has worked for some folks. I don't think you should combine that with copper though. Let's ask @vetteguy53081


Jay

Brooklynella has worked for many here who used it. It just takes a little longer than traditional Formalin based meds. It is however reef safe and easy to apply to tank. It will turn your water a neon green color temporarily. I would as Jay mentioned Not combine with copper as copper contain bonding agents to make them safe for treatment and mixing with meds can alter the chemistry and make the treatment toxic

 

[amazingdude5]

Here are two videos the best I could get of them. Clifford just tried to jump out of the tank and did so successfully (about 3 seconds) while I was feeding. He tired himself out from doing so and is back to laying on the bottom. The wrasse still has white salt sprinkles on him. The clownfish skin looks hazy. The videos are with ambient light and flash on. He keeps trying to jump out and it stressing himself out / breathing heavy.

 

[amazingdude5]

Last night we lost the clown as well. Just down to Clifford the wrasse. Since there does appear to be mucus / slime coat in the QT that has fallen off the fish, can I do a bath of Ruby Reef Rally bath tonight and then place him back into copper? I'm showing symptoms of both brook and velvet / ich so I want to do as much as I can to fight both. Please let me know.

 

[amazingdude5]

Clifford ate a few pellets today and lives to see another day. Hoping he is strong enough to over come it. Tomorrow will be day 3 of copper treatment. No real change in behavior from him. Respiratory rate (80 BPM) is decent. Still has white spots, hoping they begin to fall off soon.