Pressure on False Claim Products

[Nonya]

Polylab medic is a good canadite for your list

Why?

 

[Borat]

Hydrogen peroxide medic

 

[Borat]

You can buy 5L on amazon for $10..

 

[Doctorgori]

Hydrogen peroxide medic

yup basically…
polylab medic did work. for me however, but only in tandem with peroxide,
…..to nobody’s surprise

 

[MnFish1]

@Randy Holmes-Farley BRO - you started this thread with an apparent agenda - can you complete it

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

@Randy Holmes-Farley BRO - you started this thread with an apparent agenda - can you complete it

The job will never be done. lol

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Status report: testing completed

Seachem Aquavitro Balance. Seachem tech support insisted adding hydroxide does not boost alk. When I showed how that doesn’t make sense based on the exact processes they claimed happened, such as converting bicarbonate to carbonate, they went radio silent. Data below reinforces data I have already published on the pH and alk effects of hydroxide. I will send them the new data and suggest they actually test it themselves.

Brightwell Boost pH +. Jack Kent of Brightwell agreed that hydroxide boosts alk (unlike Seachem). He says that the product contains proprietary chemicals in addition to the listed hydroxide that makes an important difference. He also tested the alk effect himself, but used an API kit with poor precision (each drop is 1 dKH so 0.5 dKH boost can go unnoticed).

Dan_P and Miami Reef stepped up, bought the product, and tested it for a variety of things, especially the pH and alk boosts. They also tested the same parameters when adding sodium hydroxide, and tested both reef tank water and new Instant Ocean.

Between them the my used the Salifert, Red Sea and Hanna alk tests, and carefully recalibrated pH meters.

The upshot is that the pH boost of the Brightwell product shows the same alk rise per pH rise as does sodium hydroxide. There is no indication of a smaller alk rise using this product to attain the pH boost than when using hydroxide alone.

Taricha made this summary graph of all of that data. All of the lines follow the same upward track of alk to get the indicated pH boost.

There are more sorts of tests run (such as an alk titration of the Brightwell product itself to see its inherent alk content) and more discussion in the testing thread here:

Experimental testing of Brightwell Boost pH +

This is the proposed experiment: take some reef tank water, that is in the pH range that needs raising, say, pH 7.8 to 8.2, and has alkalinity in the range you suggest (7.7 to 10 dKH) some artificial seawater that is in the pH range that needs raising, say, 7.8 to 8.2, and has alkalinity in...

www.reef2reef.com

In my opinion the case is closed barring new information. The Aquavitro and Brightwell products do boost pH, but fail their own claims in that they also boost alk.

I’ll be forwarding a summary of the data and a link to the testing thread to both companies, and will suggest they carry out their own tests with appropriate capacity to detect the alk changes expected.

Thanks again to the folks who stepped up and ran the tests. Chemistry arguments ran into a dead end at Seachem and suggestions of proprietary ingredients by Brightwell are not easily overcome without knowing what they are, but the proof is in the pudding, and these tests were a nice Christmas pudding indeed.

Happy Reefing!

 

[besskurz]

Status report: testing completed

Seachem Aquavitro Balance. Seachem tech support insisted adding hydroxide does not boost alk. When I showed how that doesn’t make sense based on the exact processes they claimed happened, such as converting bicarbonate to carbonate, they went radio silent. Data below reinforces data I have already published on the pH and alk effects of hydroxide. I will send them the new data and suggest they actually test it themselves.

Brightwell Boost pH +. Jack Kent of Brightwell agreed that hydroxide boosts alk (unlike Seachem). He says that the product contains proprietary chemicals in addition to the listed hydroxide that makes an important difference. He also tested the alk effect himself, but used an API kit with poor precision (each drop is 1 dKH so 0.5 dKH boost can go unnoticed).

Dan_P and Miami Reef stepped up, bought the product, and tested it for a variety of things, especially the pH and alk boosts. They also tested the same parameters when adding sodium hydroxide, and tested both reef tank water and new Instant Ocean.

Between them the my used the Salifert, Red Sea and Hanna alk tests, and carefully recalibrated pH meters.

The upshot is that the pH boost of the Brightwell product shows the same alk rise per pH rise as does sodium hydroxide. There is no indication of a smaller alk rise using this product to attain the pH boost than when using hydroxide alone.

Taricha made this summary graph of all of that data. All of the lines follow the same upward track of alk to get the indicated pH boost.

There are more sorts of tests run (such as an alk titration of the Brightwell product itself to see its inherent alk content) and more discussion in the testing thread here:

Experimental testing of Brightwell Boost pH +

This is the proposed experiment: take some reef tank water, that is in the pH range that needs raising, say, pH 7.8 to 8.2, and has alkalinity in the range you suggest (7.7 to 10 dKH) some artificial seawater that is in the pH range that needs raising, say, 7.8 to 8.2, and has alkalinity in...

www.reef2reef.com

In my opinion the case is closed barring new information. The Aquavitro and Brightwell products do boost pH, but fail their own claims in that they also boost alk.

I’ll be forwarding a summary of the data and a link to the testing thread to both companies, and will suggest they carry out their own tests with appropriate capacity to detect the alk changes expected.

Thanks again to the folks who stepped up and ran the tests. Chemistry arguments ran into a dead end at Seachem and suggestions of proprietary ingredients by Brightwell are not easily overcome without knowing what they are, but the proof is in the pudding, and these tests were a nice Christmas pudding indeed.

Happy Reefing!

I'm using aquavitro balance to raise my PH.

Before It was in average
PH 7.67 - KH 9.00

After adding 5ml = Ph 8.31

Tested this morning alk = KH 9.4

There might be some fluctuation on readings, but for me it's true that KH also raises contrary to what is in the label.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I'm using aquavitro balance to raise my PH.

Before It was in average
PH 7.67 - KH 9.00

After adding 5ml = Ph 8.31

Tested this morning alk = KH 9.4

There might be some fluctuation on readings, but for me it's true that KH also raises contrary to what is in the label.

Thanks for the info.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

FWIW, because of the holidays and my traveling, I was slow to send our experimental data to Seachem/Aquavitro and Brightwell, but did so yesterday along with the suggestion for them to measure it themselves with a suitably precise alk test.

 

[MnFish1]

FWIW, because of the holidays and my traveling, I was slow to send our experimental data to Seachem/Aquavitro and Brightwell, but did so yesterday along with the suggestion for them to measure it themselves with a suitably precise alk test.

It will be interesting to see their reply. My 'guess' is something like - 'well alkalinity does go up - but not far enough and not long enough to make any clinically significant difference to a tank. I'm actually curious how long these 'pH +' products raise pH - i.e. is there any real utility in using them on a sporadic basis as compared to lets say a Kalwasser constant dose or a constant dose of NaOH.

 

[AKReefing]

Should you be able to trust that your salt mix doesn't contain undesirable contaminants? I suspect my salt mix contains high levels of lithium.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Should you be able to trust that your salt mix doesn't contain undesirable contaminants? I suspect my salt mix contains high levels of lithium.

Some may elevated lithium, but I also believe it is not high enough to be a tox concern.

 

[rtparty]

Definitely have a red flag going off with what the Benepets reps are saying about their food.

A user stated you could over feed Benereef and it won’t raise nutrients. The rep responded this as the reason why:

“The real answer is that it's Redfield neutral, highly nutritious, superfood powered , pre and probiotic boosted and bacteria balanced.”

Anyone care to dissect this mystery?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Definitely have a red flag going off with what the Benepets reps are saying about their food.

A user stated you could over feed Benereef and it won’t raise nutrients. The rep responded this as the reason why:

“The real answer is that it's Redfield neutral, highly nutritious, superfood powered , pre and probiotic boosted and bacteria balanced.”

Anyone care to dissect this mystery?

Anything that is a highly, super boosted and balanced probiotic must be good!

 

[spsick]

Definitely have a red flag going off with what the Benepets reps are saying about their food.

A user stated you could over feed Benereef and it won’t raise nutrients. The rep responded this as the reason why:

“The real answer is that it's Redfield neutral, highly nutritious, superfood powered , pre and probiotic boosted and bacteria balanced.”

Anyone care to dissect this mystery?

It’s like they had AI write a response with popular buzzwords.

 

[Malcontent]

"synergistic blend" = "our product doesn't work"

 

[Borat]

Probiotic calcium..

 

[AKReefing]

Probiotic calcium..

Fortified with lithium?

 

[AKReefing]

So after reading this thread I'm getting a certain level of confidence that pretty much every reef product has a high probability of being snake oil. Wouldn't it be nice if there was some kind of industry oversight organization?