QT setup!!!!!! I need help :)

[Stew18]

I hope you don't mind if I ask you more questions. I am having some problems.........

So my blenny is still flashing but doesn't seem as bad but it is still happening. But my deep water chromic I bought from live aquaria basically dropped dead last night. Before i could take him out my crab had made quick work of him. He seemed totally normal although 1 time I saw him swim by the rocks and kind of try to scratch his side ( I think?) My other 3 fish seem fine.

So I am assuming I have ich. Going on the info you gave me earlier I am assuming the only way to get it out of my tank is to start a QT. I think I am going to go that route. This being said I would like to ask some questions......

Here is exactly what will go in the qt.....
*1.5 inch starry blenny
*1.5 inch diamond goby
*2.5 inch McKosker flasher wrasse
*2.5 inch Marine Betta

***** I am assuming the urchin, hermits, snails and crab can stay in the display?

1. I really want to use a 10 gallon QT - is this ok? I could give my wrasse to a friend but would like to keep the rest.

2. What water do I use to start my QT? Does it have to cycle for weeks before I move my fish?

3. What do I do to get rid of the ich in my display?

4. What do I do to kill any ich that is on my fish in my QT?

5. Do you have to wait 75 days?

6. Do I need a light on my QT? Just a pump and heater ok?

Thanks for ALL your help

Cameron

 

[twilliard]

[HASHTAG]#reefsquad[/HASHTAG]

Thank you guys and gals!

 

[melypr1985]

Hi cameron! Let's start at the beginning.
Yes, fish in the QT and everything else stays in the display. The display needs to be left without fish for 76 days. This will starve out the ich in there and kill them off that way.
The QT should be a large as you can maintain for water quality reasons. I would try for a 20 long. You'll need an HOB filter with the carbon cartrige removed and replaced with a simple foam sponge. Soak the sponge in a bottled bacteria for an hour before you put it in the tank. Pour all the contents of the bowl and sponge into the filter. Use NEW saltwater to fill your QT. It wont hurt a thing to do that.
Run CP or Copper for 30 days straight. Make sure you have a proper test kit for the type of copper you use and test OFTEN. Keep the copper levels at therapeutic levels for 30 days. if they drop the 30 days starts over.
Your QT will cycle, but you can put your fish in there right away. An ammonia badge will help you keep track of the ammonia in real time. Daily water changes will be needed until the cycle establishes itself.
I'll post the write ups for these things as well for you to read in more detail.

 

[melypr1985]

Chloroquine phosphate: Treats Ich (Cryptocaryon irritans), Marine Velvet disease (Amyloodinium), Brooklynella hostilis & Uronema marinum.

How To Treat - Chloroquine phosphate (CP) is a “new drug” that actually was widely used to control external protozoa in saltwater aquariums back in the 70s & 80s. It was even used in some aquarium medications sold at LFS. At some point the FDA decided to make it a controlled substance and that was the end of that. Fast forward to today and thanks to the power of the Internet, CP has come roaring back! The biggest obstacle to overcome is obtaining pharmaceutical grade 99% pure CP. I cannot stress the importance of this enough. Do not buy it from some guy on eBay or even an online vendor. The only way to be sure you are getting 99% pure CP is to get your vet to write you a prescription that can then be filled at a local pharmacy.

CP is a “one and done” medication, meaning you dose once and that’s it. There are no test kits for CP, so it’s important that you dose accurately using a digital scale. Also, don’t forget to dose any replacement water (from water changes, but not top off) with CP. The dosage rates are as follows:

• Prophylactic treatment is 40 mg per gallon.
• Active infections (visible symptoms present) is 60mg/gal.
• For Uronema marinum and really bad infestations, you can dose up to 80mg/gal.

As you can see, there is quite a bit of wiggle room between the minimum & maximum dosage. Practically speaking, 40mg/gal will treat all external protozoa issues… it’s just that the higher dosages may get the job done a little faster. Treatment lasts 30 consecutive days, and no carbon, UV, etc. may be used during this time (although it can be used later when you wish to remove the medication from the water). A little quirk about CP is that it is light sensitive, so you cannot use a light on the aquarium while treating. However, this does not mean your fish have to remain in total darkness; ambient lighting (say, from a window across the room) is fine. CP is NOT reef safe. In addition to killing your corals, it is a very strong algaecide.

Pros - Gentle on most fish (DO NOT USE with wrasses), a “one and done” medication that treats most external protozoa. CP is the closest thing there is to a “wonder drug” in our hobby.

Cons/Side Effects - Expensive, hard to get (requires a prescription), light sensitive; some evidence of appetite suppression with certain species (especially wrasses.) Attempts to feed CP laced food are usually not successful due to its bad metallic taste.

Copper: Treats Ich (Cryptocaryon irritans), Marine Velvet disease (Amyloodinium); possibly Uronema marinum

How To Treat - First, it is important to know what kind of copper you are using. Cupramine is fully charged (ionic) copper, and has a therapeutic range of 0.35-0.5 mg/L or ppm. You would use a Seachem or Salifert copper test kit for Cupramine, as those are capable of reading copper in the low range. Coppersafe, on the other hand, is chelated copper. It has a much higher therapeutic range of 1.5-2.0 mg/L or ppm. As such, you need a “total copper test kit” such as API’s to measure Coppersafe.

Standard copper treatment lasts 30 consecutive days. The reason it takes so long is copper only targets the “free swimming stage” (the same holds true for all chemical treatments & hypo). While 7-14 days is the “norm” to reach this stage, certain strains of ich have prolonged life cycles. Indeed, even 30 days may not be long enough in some rare cases. This is why it is so important to observe after treatment ends, to ensure symptoms do not return.

Therapeutic copper levels must be maintained at all times during the 30 days, so testing often is important. If the level drops even slightly out of range, then the 30 day clock starts all over again. One reason your copper level may drop unexpectedly is if you are treating in a tank with rock and substrate; those should not be used in the presence of copper due to absorption. Conversely, if you exceed the therapeutic range you risk killing the fish.

Copper is a poison, pure and simple. It only works because most fish are able to withstand being in it longer than the parasites. Knowing this, it is wise to raise your copper level very slowly (over 3-5 days) instead of the usual 24-48 hours recommended on the labels. Doing so increases your odds of successfully treating a “copper sensitive” fish. Remove copper after 30 days by running activated carbon.

Pros - Readily available

Cons/Side Effects - Appetite suppression is a common side effect. If a fish stops eating, don’t add more copper until he resumes. If the fish is still not eating after 2-3 days, start doing water changes (lowering the copper concentration) until he eats. If this happens a second time after you resume raising the copper, you’ll know you’ve encountered a “copper sensitive” fish and an alternative treatment should be used instead. Some species of fish, such as angels, puffers, lions and mandarins are notoriously difficult to treat with copper.

Dimilin: Treats anchor worms. Note: Worms still need to be removed from the fish by using tweezers before beginning treatment.

How To Treat - Follow instructions on the label of whatever product you are using (just be sure it lists dimilin or diflubenzuron as an active ingredient). Anchor worms are mostly seen in Koi, so any place selling pond supplies might carry dimilin. It is also sometimes sold on Amazon & eBay (or they’ll have an alternative). For example, I searched for “dimilin” on Amazon and Microbe-Lift Lice and Anchor Worm Treatment came up, a suitable alternative. For quarantine use only.

Pros - Safe & effective.

Cons/Side Effects - NOT reef safe.

 

[melypr1985]

This is another option that doesn't require copper at all. Just double the QT equipment.
http://reef2reef.com/threads/spars-tank-transfer-method.209690/

And more detail on setting up a QT.

http://reef2reef.com/threads/how-to-quarantine.189815/


Good luck sweetie and let us know if you have any more questions!

 

[AllSignsPointToFish]

1. 10 gallons is a bit small.
2. Use a HOB filter with some ammonia absorbant and a sea Chem ammonia alert. You can also stick a sponge in your sump and use that to start the QT.
3.Leave the DT fishless for at least 72 days.
4. Dose with copper or appropriate treatments in the QT.
5. Yes, basically.

6. You don't have to have one, but a small light helps you to monitor the fish more easily.

 

[twilliard]

Thank you Meredith!

 

[Stew18]

Meredith,

I can't thank you enough!!!! I very limited for extra space and happen to have a Innovative Marine 10 gallon all in one tank I was hoping to use. Is there any chance I can use it for my QT? It is 12" wide 15" tall and 13" deep

 

[AllSignsPointToFish]

That betta will not be happy in a 10 gallons

 

[melypr1985]

1. 10 gallons is a bit small.
2. Use a HOB filter with some ammonia absorbant and a sea Chem ammonia alert. You can also stick a sponge in your sump and use that to start the QT.
3.Leave the DT fishless for at least 72 days.
4. Dose with copper or appropriate treatments in the QT.
5. Yes, basically.

6. You don't have to have one, but a small light helps you to monitor the fish more easily.

Never ever use an ammonia, nitrate or nitrite reducer in conjunction with copper. it will turn the copper toxic and kill the fish. Just FYI

 

[melypr1985]

Meredith,

I can't thank you enough!!!! I very limited for extra space and happen to have a Innovative Marine 10 gallon all in one tank I was hoping to use. Is there any chance I can use it for my QT? It is 12" wide 15" tall and 13" deep

Only if you have no other choice. Maybe you have a friend with a 20 you can borrow? If you have to, you can use the 10 to get started with the copper, but spend that time looking for a 20. It's a temp home for them, but I wouldn't push it too much with that beta. Large water changes will be needed.

 

[Stew18]

Is it because the beta is supposed to get bigger? He is very small now. If I go with a 10 how often and how much water changes? And the same question if I can get my hands on a 20?

 

[Stew18]

And thank you so much I have learned so much from this forum its awesome

 

[AllSignsPointToFish]

Is it because the beta is supposed to get bigger? He is very small now. If I go with a 10 how often and how much water changes? And the same question if I can get my hands on a 20?

I just wouldn't personally do it considering how aggressive a marine betta can be, but that's just me.

 

[AllSignsPointToFish]

Good catch. I got all caught up in trying to do bullet points on a smart phone. lol

 

[AllSignsPointToFish]

Is it because the beta is supposed to get bigger? He is very small now. If I go with a 10 how often and how much water changes? And the same question if I can get my hands on a 20?

I'd say of you're going to use the same tank, make an acrylic barrier to separate the betta from the others. It doesn't need to be anything fancy, just a piece of acrylic with drilled holes held in place with suction cups.

 

[melypr1985]

Is it because the beta is supposed to get bigger? He is very small now. If I go with a 10 how often and how much water changes? And the same question if I can get my hands on a 20?

It depends. You could end up doing 80% changes. It all depends on the bio load, how much your feeding and your water volume. I say go with a 20 because a marine beta is actually in the grouper family and they can produce a lot of waste. In a QT you need to have near perfect water to help the fish get better. So the more water volume you have, the more water you have to dilute the waste in between water changes. Marine betas are not very active so they dont require a whole lot of room to move around, but I was more concerned with water quality. You'll have to make judgement calls in real time on how much water to change. It could be daily 80% until the tank cycles and even then, in a 10 gallon, you could still be doing daily changes of 10% or so. You'll have to just set it up and get it going to know. Make sure you have the ammonia alert badge.

 

[Stew18]

Ok last question.....
My buddy at the fish store that also owns his own 150 gallon tank said that I could start the QT with water from my tank. He said the copper will kill that ich and with all the water changes it should be fine. He said this way you don't have to do as big of water changes. He recommended 20 percent a day?

 

[AllSignsPointToFish]

Well, I'm not sure that's correct. While you could certainly start the QT with DT water, the water carries far fewer bacteria than a sponge or some other piece of substrate from your tank. You could use a piece of live rock to seed the QT, but you probably should never return it to the DT after use in the QT as it can soak up treatment chemicals and copper.

 

[melypr1985]

Ok last question.....
My buddy at the fish store that also owns his own 150 gallon tank said that I could start the QT with water from my tank. He said the copper will kill that ich and with all the water changes it should be fine. He said this way you don't have to do as big of water changes. He recommended 20 percent a day?

While you can certainly use the water from the DT it wont help with the cycle of the tank. Live rock is a bad idea because it will absorb the copper in the water and leach it back out later, making the copper levels difficult to maintain. Not to mention you've basically trashed that live rock forever. Like I said.... you wont know how big of water changes to do until you're in real time with the fish and tank and an ammonia badge. If 20% doesn't do it, then a bigger one is needed. Your goal is to do what is necessary to keep the ammonia at zero until the tank cycles.