Quarantining: The pros & cons

[ca1ore]

Oh crap... That's how we have our QT tanks now. There's a rubber mat dividing the two but it's a typical metal tank stand for 2 twenty gallon tanks. We divided them in half with glass & silicone for more individual tank space. I guess that was not such a good idea after all.

I've had my QT tanks this way for a while, but hadn't actually been running the upper one. Probably cross contamination is rare, but clearly can happen.

 

[DieHardPhotog-Reefer]

I'm seeing velvet, uronema, gram-negative bacterial infections in every shipment. Kinda makes me miss Cryptocaryon.

Would long, stringy poop be a symptom of a gram-negative bacterial infection in the Black Molly? I just acclimated 3 FW Black Molly's to the DT to test our FALLOW results. Either one got hold of a random strand of Cheato or that was stringy poop hanging out. It dissappeared under a rock before I could confirm.

 

[ca1ore]

I'm seeing velvet, uronema, gram-negative bacterial infections in every shipment. Kinda makes me miss Cryptocaryon.

I am increasingly of the opinion that prophylactic treatment is better; even though I have historically been a watcher ..... OK, that came out wrong, but you know what I mean.

 

[Humblefish]

@Humblefish I know you have been running a lot of fish through QT lately. About what percentage of fish you receive come in with a disease that needs to be treated in QT? My experience this year has been that around 60% of the fish i've purchased were diseased. I wonder if i've just been unlucky or if your experience has been similar.

I prophylactically treat all incoming fish, so it's hard for me to say which were diseased upon receipt and which were not. But usually with every shipment I can see active signs of velvet and/or uronema in a few of the bags. These fish are isolated away from my main QTs and almost always die. Too far gone I suppose.

I get in around 50-60 fish at a time, and perform necropsies on every single fish that dies. Most of the time I can trace the death back to velvet, uronema or a gram-negative infection. Sometimes only the liver & kidneys look damaged, which suggests either cyanide or ammonia poisoning. Some shipments I only lose a few fish; however this last shipment has been devastating because most of the fish developed a gram-negative infection that I initially mistook for Lymphocystis. White lesions are even spreading internally over the fishes' internal organs. Guess I got really unlucky this time around and picked up a weird bacterial disease. Staining has confirmed it is being caused by gram-negative bacteria, but I am unable to ID the genus, species.

Would long, stringy poop be a symptom of a gram-negative bacterial infection in the Black Molly? I just acclimated 3 FW Black Molly's to the DT to test our FALLOW results. Either one got hold of a random strand of Cheato or that was stringy poop hanging out. It dissappeared under a rock before I could confirm.

White stringy poop is a symptom of internal parasites/intestinal worms: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/internal-pathogens.267419/

 

[cancun]

I prophylactically treat all incoming fish, so it's hard for me to say which were diseased upon receipt and which were not. But usually with every shipment I can see active signs of velvet and/or uronema in a few of the bags. These fish are isolated away from my main QTs and almost always die. Too far gone I suppose.

I get in around 50-60 fish at a time, and perform necropsies on every single fish that dies. Most of the time I can trace the death back to velvet, uronema or a gram-negative infection. Sometimes only the liver & kidneys look damaged, which suggests either cyanide or ammonia poisoning. Some shipments I only lose a few fish; however this last shipment has been devastating because most of the fish developed a gram-negative infection that I initially mistook for Lymphocystis. White lesions are even spreading internally over the fishes' internal organs. Guess I got really unlucky this time around and picked up a weird bacterial disease. Staining has confirmed it is being caused by gram-negative bacteria, but I am unable to ID the genus, species.



White stringy poop is a symptom of internal parasites/intestinal worms: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/internal-pathogens.267419/

That's a good question! On that same note...@humblefish any idea why all the diseased fish? In all the yrs in the hobby I don't remember seeing so many! I never buy online....but even my LFS are getting it more and more fish that are sick....

 

[Brew12]

That's a good question! On that same note...@humblefish any idea why all the diseased fish? In all the yrs in the hobby I don't remember seeing so many! I never buy online....but even my LFS are getting it more and more fish that are sick....

My opinion is that there is nothing to break the cycle of disease in the supply chain. How often do you think wholesalers break down and sanitize their systems? My guess is that it just doesn't happen. The systems are always up and running with fish cycling through so once a disease or parasite is added it never goes away.

 

[ca1ore]

or a gram-negative infection.

What do you use to treat? I've been using cipro/fish flox, unless there is something better?

 

[HotRocks]

My opinion is that there is nothing to break the cycle of disease in the supply chain. How often do you think wholesalers break down and sanitize their systems? My guess is that it just doesn't happen. The systems are always up and running with fish cycling through so once a disease or parasite is added it never goes away.

I agree^^^

To add if they do nothing as far as treating the systems then the concentration of parasites/bacteria just continues to increase since they are enclosed systems.

I wish there was an easy fix. But unfortunately there isn't.

 

[Humblefish]

My opinion is that there is nothing to break the cycle of disease in the supply chain. How often do you think wholesalers break down and sanitize their systems? My guess is that it just doesn't happen. The systems are always up and running with fish cycling through so once a disease or parasite is added it never goes away.

^^ This; sterilizing a system means downtime which cuts into their profit margins.

What do you use to treat? I've been using cipro/fish flox, unless there is something better?

Kanamycin/Nitrofurazone combo takes care of most problems, but NFG is my go-to for serious infections. However, I've had issues keeping ammonia under control when using NFG - reportedly the methylene blue it contains can destroy nitrifying bacteria.

I've seriously been considering using cipro prophylactically because it won't discolor the water. I would LOVE to hear more about your experiences using cipro on fish. Perhaps you could start a new thread with that information?

 

[DieHardPhotog-Reefer]

I am increasingly of the opinion that prophylactic treatment is better; even though I have historically been a watcher ..... OK, that came out wrong, but you know what I mean.

LOL!!!! Yes, that definitely didn't read as you meant it.

I'm still a newbie but we started down the QT road early and set up the QT's location before we got the display water ready; even so, after just one outbreak of Brooklynella & Fin Rot (we hope that's all it was), I can't express how much I believe in a prophylactic method of QT over anything else. Watching my wife curl up and cry over lost marine animals is not a place I wish to revisit anytime in the future.;Blackeye

 

[ca1ore]

I would LOVE to hear more about your experiences using cipro on fish. Perhaps you could start a new thread with that information?

I'm a big proponent of NFG as well. I have cipro/fish flox for treating magnifica anemones, but it seems to work well on fish too (which makes sense given the name LOL). I'll start a separate thread on the topic. Cheers.

 

[Humblefish]

I'm a big proponent of NFG as well. I have cipro/fish flox for treating magnifica anemones, but it seems to work well on fish too (which makes sense given the name LOL). I'll start a separate thread on the topic. Cheers.

Thank you

 

[cancun]

My opinion is that there is nothing to break the cycle of disease in the supply chain. How often do you think wholesalers break down and sanitize their systems? My guess is that it just doesn't happen. The systems are always up and running with fish cycling through so once a disease or parasite is added it never goes away.

Yea that makes perfect sense.....! I was at one of my favorite LFS the other day, and they just got in a huge shipment of fish. They have a bunch of various Wrasses, plus some Tangs and Angels. About 50% of his order was eaither dead or dying. He was not happy about it. Most of his order came from Quality Marine, which was known to be a decent whole saler.....it was sad looking in his buckets while he was acclimating the livestock and seeing so many dead it dying specimens.

 

[ReefWithCare]

Tf - there is still cyanine poisoning?!? Good thing I MB all my incoming fish [emoji79]

 

[Brew12]

I wonder if things are becoming more commercialized on the collection end and if that could be having an impact. Smaller collectors may find it cheaper to drain and clean their tanks between collection trips. If it is being more commercialized that could cause disease issues at the earliest part of the supply chain that hadn't been there before.

No idea if this is true, just speculating.

 

[cancun]

I wonder if things are becoming more commercialized on the collection end and if that could be having an impact. Smaller collectors may find it cheaper to drain and clean their tanks between collection trips. If it is being more commercialized that could cause disease issues at the earliest part of the supply chain that hadn't been there before.

No idea if this is true, just speculating.

Hmmmmm....good speculation.....that sounds logical too....that could explain why some areas like Hawaii for example, most of the time have healthier specimens. They cost more, but I am sure all of us here would be agree, that we rather pay more for healthy specimens....

 

[Humblefish]

Hmmmmm....good speculation.....that sounds logical too....that could explain why some areas like Hawaii for example, most of the time have healthier specimens. They cost more, but I am sure all of us here would be agree, that we rather pay more for healthy specimens....

I was told by a wholesaler (who does treat on an as-needed basis) that Hawaiian fish are often the most heavily parasitized. Color me surprised, as well.

 

[ReefWithCare]

I was told by a wholesaler (who does treat on an as-needed basis) that Hawaiian fish are often the most heavily parasitized. Color me surprised, as well.

The area deserves a ban if that’s how they are coming in imo

 

[Trickman2]

I gave in and setup a 50 gallon QT system.

A nice used 50 gallon 48L x 18Wx 14T showed up on a local board for 60 dollars.

Dad was battling a outbreak of velvet. Deciddd to setup in a hurry.
AquaClear 50
3 dual sponge filters
Cobalt 100 watt heater
Cupramine copper

Currently in Qt, zebra Moray, foxface, marine beta and a damsel.

Fish killed in my Dads 100 gallon due to velvet outbreak. Lemon peel angel, 3 damsels, sargassum trigger, two percula clowns, Dog face puffer which brought the Velvet into the system.

Paraguard, Metronidazol, garlic and focus was unsuccessful due to what I believe was a late intervention.

Anyways, I figured a 50 gallon was a perfect Qt system for my 280 gallon system.

 

[Trickman2]

I was told by a wholesaler (who does treat on an as-needed basis) that Hawaiian fish are often the most heavily parasitized. Color me surprised, as well.

Interesting what wholesaler said that?