Red Sea Fail, very harsh!! But truthful IMO.

[brandon429]

MN you need to add a poll option: have red sea quality issue threads dissuaded you from buying red sea

Red Sea G1 525 XL Seam Failure :(

Hey guys, I always hoped that I got lucky and wouldn’t have to make this post seeing all the past failures. I recently started noticing bubbles and what looks like sand in the seam holding my front panel. I was watching it carefully and measuring and I noticed it started growing and now it runs...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[Sleepingtiger]

Not sure if this is relevant. Few months ago I sold a G1 750XXL for $1500. I had like 5 people in line wanting to buy it. I thoroughly explained to the guy that it was very important he level the stand and install the brace.

 

[MnFish1]

MN you need to add a poll option: have red sea quality issue threads dissuaded you from buying red sea

Red Sea G1 525 XL Seam Failure :(

Hey guys, I always hoped that I got lucky and wouldn’t have to make this post seeing all the past failures. I recently started noticing bubbles and what looks like sand in the seam holding my front panel. I was watching it carefully and measuring and I noticed it started growing and now it runs...

www.reef2reef.com

I do not believe I can add any more items to the poll and have it make sense. I only put this up to get a rough idea of how many people have redsea tanks - and how many have had problems. It is kind of like API test kits - there are probably hundreds of thousands of people that use them - they probably have the same 'error rate' as other kits, but even many people that don't use them post saying 'don't use them because they've heard of issues'.

PS - it's clear (based on posts) that some people have delayed or not purchased RedSea tanks. I think there are also some people that are changing from Gen 1 to Gen 2 or whatever the newest generation is. I'm not sure a new poll is necessary? I know you don't agree - but if you look at the membership in the Facebook groups - it's clear that RedSea is a dominant player in the rimless tank market. I think the issues with RedSea have many people re-thinking rimless tanks - in general.

 

[Cranie]

My RSR 425XL is 3 weeks away from 2 years old. If I knew then what I know now I would not own a RS tank. All I can do at this point is keep an eye on it and keep my fingers crossed.

Mine is coming up on 3 and I JUST found this thread. Now I'm starting to freak a bit. So far all good but.....

 

[brandon429]

I can truly say Cranie if you have one of the editions known to split at the 2-6 year mark based on pattern it’s a legit concern. It seems the g2 are lesser to no risk, based on pattern. If you decide to preemptively move the items to a new tank we have a tank transfer thread where 100% of the time we can make a new tank transfer without loss using a certain order of ops to the move.

 

[Lebowski_]

I can truly say Cranie if you have one of the editions known to split at the 2-6 year mark based on pattern it’s a legit concern. It seems the g2 are lesser to no risk, based on pattern. If you decide to preemptively move the items to a new tank we have a tank transfer thread where 100% of the time we can make a new tank transfer without loss using a certain order of ops to the move.

Do we know this for sure?

G2 seem over engineered in a good way but it seems like most RS G1s that failed did so after several years. We will need another couple years to see how they fare.

 

[brandon429]

Everyone gets to choose. Either the collective losses/ floods on file mean to take preemptive action or they're just a small drop in the bucket and there's not much risk. I know what side I'm on, I wouldn't run, own or buy any red sea tank for as long as I reef and if I win a free one in a raffle, I'd sell it

As a pattern watcher for reef trends these breaks and the new ones coming force me to recommend preemptively leaving these tanks ahead of time. This is going on too long and the customer service is horrible

This is an unacceptable pattern in my opinion: due to the future ones we'll soon see, the predictable ones, not the past ones

 

[Snoopdog]

Everyone gets to choose. Either the collective losses/ floods on file mean to take preemptive action or they're just a small drop in the bucket and there's not much risk. I know what side I'm on, I wouldn't run, own or buy any red sea tank for as long as I reef and if I win a free one in a raffle, I'd sell it

As a pattern watcher for reef trends these breaks and the new ones coming force me to recommend preemptively leaving these tanks ahead of time. This is going on too long and the customer service is horrible

This is an unacceptable pattern in my opinion: due to the future ones we'll soon see, the predictable ones, not the past ones

The reason I will never own another Mitsubishi. It was a cascading list of failures owning one, never again.

 

[Cranie]

Well, Amanda wrote back today saying I have a V3 and these issues have been addressed in the design of it.

 

[MnFish1]

There's a pretty big difference between people who are into the hobby but must be efficient with their spending vs people who spend an extra 2k for a sleeker look (?) and because the brand is popular (especially on instagram). I used to love selling wealthy people the luxury equipment - it was all about look, brand and convenience, not performance. The margins were outrageous.

The people who have their marine tanks serviced either have a disability (maybe 3 customers in my entire career) or have a lot of money and enjoy looking at the tank/pond but aren't obsessed with the minutae of tank care. These people often own many other luxury brands as well.

I don't think they are bad - I think the G1 was a flawed product. I do think they are wildly overpriced, in the same way that someone will buy an $800 blender to do tasks that a $200 blender will do for the same quality and longevity.

Most of their business relates to setting up and taking down tanks. I.e. lifting hundreds of pounds of tank and stand and delivering. I agree with you that people using a weekly (example) maintenence from an aquarium store would be more likely a business - or a person unable to maintain it (whether because of physical issues or people not really interested in the hobby itself.

 

[MnFish1]

Not true, at all. First of all, they do make huge margins of profit. A company isn't going to bother if the margin were to be close to each other. All that hassle isn't worth it for them. Companies aren't evil? I think you should check again. If they find a design flaw they'll do everything? Yeah, but the damage has already been done and they are apparently too tight to acknowledge this and compensate them whilst resolving the design flaw. It isn't in their interest? Of course it isn't, but selling it at a premium price is. Perfect example of all of this would be beats by dr dre. Sure, their newer versions are amazing, but pure statistically speaking the beats studio was a complete flop and the beats pro (which I personally love) is still statistically worse than other headphones which are half the price.

No one in their right mind is going to spend hours and hours and hours of their day, investing and taking HUGE risks in the hopes of making a couple of bucks. Maybe if it's a part-time gig they're doing, like my LFS. They too however are still making great profit.

RedSea makes money on the tanks - LFS do not. Instead - they make money selling all of the stuff that goes into the tanks. The reason many LFS have closed is that people just buy on the internet - and it's difficult for a brick and mortar store to compete on dry goods.

 

[MnFish1]

Is that the fallacy where they attack moral character to detract from the actual arguments being made or a different one?

No thats a person who said (paraphrased) - I used to love customers like you - who would buy the most expensive but by implication not the best equipment. That is not a straw man argument

 

[MnFish1]

How much is a deductible on that though? I know for things like a hurricane the deductible is rather high. Home owners will not cover coral or fish, they cover the rest though. The question is the deductible cost compared to other claims.

Our homeowners insurance deductible could range from $250 - $5000. We chose $5000. to lower the premium because we have no risk issues. PS - not all homeowners insurance covers damage from an aquarium. Anyone with a large aquarium should check with their agent.

 

[MnFish1]

No, I just noticed a trend in failures from red sea, at least 1 new post a week for the last few months, so I decided to start a conversation. Did a little search and was dismayed at what I discovered, so I shared. I am very happy with the end results of the conversation I started, there is a ton of good advice and information in this thread, and some touchy feelings I was able to chuckle about as well.

I suggest you use the same little magnifying glass - and search for 'Aquarium leak -Redsea'. nearly every brand is represented in this thread.

 

[stevolough]

I suggest you use the same little magnifying glass - and search for 'Aquarium leak -Redsea'. nearly every brand is represented in this thread.

Our homeowners insurance deductible could range from $250 - $5000. We chose $5000. to lower the premium because we have no risk issues. PS - not all homeowners insurance covers damage from an aquarium. Anyone with a large aquarium should check with their agent.

Even if they paid the claim they would cancel you the next day

 

[MnFish1]

I would be willing to bet that the vast majority... approaching 99% or more of aquarium owners have not contacted their insurance company and negotiated ANYTHING prior to setting up an aquarium...... or building a small woodshop in their basement, or any number of expensive hobbies that have potential to do personal or material damage.

Monster tank builders? Maybe....but even then?

Then those people are not that educated about loss mitigation

 

[MnFish1]

Even if they paid the claim they would cancel you the next day

No - they wouldn't. because we use a reputable company. The issue for insurance companies is repeated claims - with sketchy evidence. BTW - I agree with you - if you have a cheap policy - they could cancel you. BUT - your mortgage company will have an issue with this - as insurance is required - so AFAIK - the days of insurance cancellations due to a claim has dropped considerably.

 

[MnFish1]

Just to try and inject some more useful info here... My gen1 625 failed recently, and I would defiantly blame the stand, and not necessarily the construction of the tank. The failure was exactly in the center of the unbraced sump area. It allowed that area of the stand to dip almost 3/16 over about 40". I did not notice it until the seam started to spread, because it is all black, and even though it was sagging, the doors still closed level and hid it. I feel the floor glass falling down, combined with the outward pressure of the front glass is the culprit. My seam separated from the top down.

I also find these threads useful, although easily cluttered with opinions. I wish I could of found more threads like this BEFORE I bought the RS.

MnFish1, you sure seem to have a lot of facts and numbers based on a few conversations with people the rest of us cannot verify. Can u back up any of these numbers with some actual evidence the rest of us can view? I can sure see how you have so many posts.

1. Call RedSea - they will give you the numbers
2. Ask your local LFS - what they are recommending, selling, etc.
3. I don't have a lot of numbers - and what you're saying isn't true - I related 1 conversation with 2 people coming to take my tank down and move it - saving the fish and coral. Of course no-one would suggest that this is evidence such as what would be used in a court case.
4. If BRS thought that these tanks were a liability - as the (I think) - largest reef online distributer of large tanks - I would hope they would not sell them.

The problem - imho - is there are a lot of people posting here who neither own or have owned a redsea tank - They also have no data - except to pile onto the rhetoric

 

[MnFish1]

I would also say this. Having setup two RS 750XXL. The stand is crap. Its particle board with a thick coat of paint. Also, setting up the stand is similar to Ikea. Key difference is the 30 something adjustable legs on the bottom.

Just my experience as a wood worker and some knowledge of physics. The stand has to be absolutely level. All the legs need to support the weight equally. This allows the stand to equally support the weight of the tank and prevent the bottom of the tank from bowing. When I set up my tank, i would level the stand without the tank. Place the tank, check the feets of the stand to make sure none were loose or too tight. This too me is crucial. I want the tank to have the same support throughout.

Because the setup of the stand is quite complicated, I can guess some of the failures were due to improper setup of the stand in combination with the stand bowing causing stress on the front center bottom seem.

It's not - particle board - it's plywood (though there are pieces that have nothing to do with stability - that are particle board (cosmetic). If you don't believe me - just go to their site - and see

 

[Lebowski_]

RedSea makes money on the tanks - LFS do not. Instead - they make money selling all of the stuff that goes into the tanks. The reason many LFS have closed is that people just buy on the internet - and it's difficult for a brick and mortar store to compete on dry goods.

Incorrect.

Source - I ordered and sold Red Sea tanks at a brick and mortar store.