Reefers may over-rely on personal experience to accept or reject truth

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Thank you Randy for all you have brought to my reefing experience over the years.
I try to not get involved in anything as much as possible.
I am very grateful for this community and to all I've learned anything from.
After 35 years in this hobby, the one thing I know is I don't know very much.
I believe answers backed with kindness and knowledge is the only way to go.

You're welcome and thanks.

FWIW, it definitely is not my intention to try to discourage folks from adding to any discussion. It's more intended to make all discussions more useful.

 

[Hans-Werner]

In my opinion, it would make most sense to describe the observation briefly that led oneself to a certain conclusion.

My motto is "every observation has two possible explanations, at least". It prevents premature determination of the conclusion and always keeps me open for alternative explanations. Finally, this is what science means, an endless process open to better and more detailed explanations.

In my eyes, it is a lack of experience if you think you've got the definitive explanation quickly. Only beginners come with quick explanations.

 

[sixty_reefer]

At risk of repeating myself, let me give a simple example:

Question: is it Ok to use tap water in a reef aquarium?
Answer: Yes

Question: What is the basis for thinking it is OK to use?
Answer: It works for me


The first answer has the obvious problem that the answer didn't give any justification for it, and a new reefer might take away that simple answer, unless there is the follow up question.

The follow up question is at the heart of this thread. It works for me is a personal experience, really of unknown merit since "works" is quite ambiguous, and the nature fo the tap water used is unknown.

The same could have been said for many synthetic salt mixes, some work for some folks as others don’t. Is having a different idea of what is best for their personal system reject the truth?
some folks like to buy ready made salt from lfs would they be rejecting the truth also others like to collect NSW not aware of their content, would that reject the truth?

folks with stronger opinions often are the ones that misinterpret the truth.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

The same could have been said for many synthetic salt mixes, some work for some folks as others don’t. Is having a different idea of what is best for their personal system reject the truth?

That's certainly not what I'm suggesting. If it does work best for them, then that is reality. No one is rejecting anything. Further, I don't think there is a "reality" about what salt mixes are best that that might be rejecting.

 

[sixty_reefer]

That's certainly not what I'm suggesting. If it does work best for them, then that is reality. No one is rejecting anything. Further, I don't think there is a "reality" about what salt mixes are best that that might be rejecting.

Synthetic salt, NSW and tap water have the same issue as in all of them we are trusting someone else to keep them safe. Not aware of anyone that tests for a salt batch before using it for contamination.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Synthetic salt, NSW and tap water have the same issue as in all of them we are trusting someone else to keep them safe. Not aware of anyone that tests for a salt batch before using it for contamination.

With salt mixes, someone is trying to make the right thing and trust is appropriately needed unless you measure.

No one is trying to make tap water suitable for a reef tank, and some is demonstrably not appropriate by the water companies own testing.

 

[brandon429]

I truly believe the size of the sand rinse thread and the number of applicants doing fine supersedes any warning about using tap water for sand rinsing.

we only use it in passing rinse, then RODI or saltwater jets it out as a final rinse

I can see how extended use might be harmful, but the warnings say any use is risky and it's time to amend that

I honestly believe the anecdote pattern changes the rules on recommends and warnings. of course at any time we can just dig in heels: tap water may hurt your reef. but we're going to hit page 300 one day/1000 work examples saying otherwise. it is hard sometimes to yield formality to anecdote, pico reefing was exactly that way too. Borneman was the only one who didn't think allelopathy would wipe out everything, after all the books of the late 90s said it would and those were the quotes given as to why pico reefs were photoshop tricks, or trick plumbed into larger reservoirs as a cheat.

raw thousands of uploaded counter proof seated pico reefs into perpetuity, not a formal article or acceptance by the initial masses. sometimes formality is the gatekeeper to new designs and new strategies, but it wont hold back what's meant to be for sure.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

tap water may hurt your reef. but we're going to hit page 300 one day/1000 work examples saying otherwise.

So you assert that tap water with 1.2 ppm copper and 5 ppm phosphate in it is suitable for all the water used in a reef tank? No one here is talking about rinsing sand.

 

[brandon429]

I always read your warning on tap use as a total blanket warning, firm no wiggle stance warning- that it's bad and dangerous. if sand rinsing is a new caveat and I see that in future warnings then that's progress, I'm expecting none though we only make change by sheer # of contestants in the threads and word of mouth about results. that takes time.

reasons we use it include unlimited rinse> in tank transfers it's better to be 100% cloudless using at times water of that imperfection stated above (surely across the hundreds of applications some met that criteria: perhaps contact time matters). ro di/salt / safe water is limited and they'll wind up leaving detritus clouding in the thread, tap allows limitless rinse prep which has perfect results so far. The lack of outlier outcomes I find very very very telling and never given credit

we use tap because in many rinse jobs we're killing target cells...dinos, cyano

they hate tap blasting.

reef forum recipients of outbound work jobs are the first and fastest to hold the worker responsible for the job if it fails. Even months later, if they attribute any aspect of our rinse using tap to a decline in their tank standards, they'll report it in all caps using a red alert thread title. we get none. I truly see an unfurling pattern that does not tie in the risk stated, at least for sand rinsing intervals.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I always read your warning on tap use as a total blanket warning, firm no wiggle stance warning- that it's bad and dangerous. if sand rinsing is a new caveat and I see that in future warnings then that's progress, I'm expecting none though we only make change by sheer # of contestants in the threads and word of mouth about results. that takes time.

reasons we use it include unlimited rinse> in tank transfers it's better to be 100% cloudless using at times water of that imperfection stated above (surely across the hundreds of applications some met that criteria: perhaps contact time matters). ro di/salt / safe water is limited and they'll wind up leaving detritus clouding in the thread, tap allows limitless rinse prep which has perfect results so far. The lack of outlier outcomes I find very very very telling and never given credit

we use tap because in many rinse jobs we're killing target cells...dinos, cyano

they hate tap blasting.

reef forum recipients of outbound work jobs are the first and fastest to hold the worker responsible for the job if it fails. Even months later, if they attribute any aspect of our rinse using tap to a decline in their tank standards, they'll report it in all caps using a red alert thread title. we get none. I truly see an unfurling pattern that does not tie in the risk stated, at least for sand rinsing intervals.

I've rinsed materials with my tap water, including sand, GFO, and GAC. Is it a risk? Probably, but that falls into the category of "it depends".

I'm not going to advise others that they should do it, when the alternatives are easy, but I also do not recall ever saying one can't do it. Just that there's a risk.