Reefers may over-rely on personal experience to accept or reject truth

[shwareefer]

Personal experience tells me it is painful to read 20 page threads.

 

[livinlifeinBKK]

So...don't recall where we left off but to reopen I would agree that many reefers take their personal experiences as empirical facts and tend to disregard the personal experiences of others which may be completely opposite or even scientific studies ime. I don't mind people trusting their personal experiences and sticking with their methods but don't think it's good to then post the "take away" from their personal experience as if they are facts or the only way to reef for others without mentioning it's knowledge collected purely from only your personal experience.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

At risk of repeating myself, let me give a simple example:

Question: is it Ok to use tap water in a reef aquarium?
Answer: Yes

Question: What is the basis for thinking it is OK to use?
Answer: It works for me


The first answer has the obvious problem that the answer didn't give any justification for it, and a new reefer might take away that simple answer, unless there is the follow up question.

The follow up question is at the heart of this thread. It works for me is a personal experience, really of unknown merit since "works" is quite ambiguous, and the nature fo the tap water used is unknown.

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

... I don't mind people trusting their personal experiences and sticking with their methods but don't think it's good to then post the "take away" from their personal experience as if they are facts or the only way to reef for others without mentioning it's knowledge collected purely from only your personal experience.

To be fair, it's also on the reader to assume that the poster's "take away" is their opinion and not necessarily fact/usual results.

 

[livinlifeinBKK]

To be fair, it's also on the reader to assume that the poster's "take away" is their opinion and not necessarily fact/usual results.

I agree...a lot of new people who really don't know how things work at all take a lot of what they hear as fact though if it's presented as common sense or a "fact" is all...it is on the reader to differentiate between what to believe though

 

[threebuoys]

At risk of repeating myself, let me give a simple example:

Question: is it Ok to use tap water in a reef aquarium?
Answer: Yes

Question: What is the basis for thinking it is OK to use?
Answer: It works for me


The first answer has the obvious problem that the answer didn't give any justification for it, and a new reefer might take away that simple answer, unless there is the follow up question.

The follow up question is at the heart of this thread. It works for me is a personal experience, really of unknown merit since "works" is quite ambiguous, and the nature fo the tap water used is unknown.

I wish everyone would preface their comments with "In my opinion", or "In my experience" or "According to" or some other relevant attribution. Generally, without attribution, I assume the statements offered are based on personal experience or hearsay.

I'm sure I've not always followed my "wish" due to rush to comment. I try harder everytime to be more accurate. Many of your threads and/or responses to others (or to me) do a good job of providing examples of the care needed to provide or receive information on the forum.

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

I agree...a lot of new people who really don't know how things work at all take a lot of what they hear as fact though if it's presented as common sense or a "fact" is all...it is on the reader to differentiate between what to believe though

That's one reason you'll often see me post links to the sticky threads... most of the info I've seen there is clear and presented as "best practices" but not absolute "musts".

 

[livinlifeinBKK]

I wish everyone would preface their comments with "In my opinion", or "In my experience" or "According to" or some other relevant attribution. Generally, without attribution, I assume the statements offered are based on personal experience or hearsay.

I'm sure I've not always followed my "wish" due to rush to comment. I try harder everytime to be more accurate. Many of your threads and/or responses to others (or to me) do a good job of providing examples of the care needed to provide or receive information on the forum.

I literally started a thread a while back saying practically the same exact thing...you wouldn't believe the hate i got for that

 

[shwareefer]

A few questions could stand to be prefaced with "I'm looking for an echo chamber and will disagree with everyone who doesn't say what I want to hear".

 

[livinlifeinBKK]

A few questions could stand to be prefaced with "I'm looking for an echo chamber and will disagree with everyone who doesn't say what I want to hear".

Yeah...i just ignore those threads though

 

[Troylee]

If you search this forum it’s gonna be very discouraging just for the simple fact everyone has opinions and what works for some doesn’t work for others.. the best advice I can give anyone on this forum that’s just starting out is..

find a reefer with an amazing tank and get to know them and follow their ways… I can say almost everyone of them is likely to help you or give you advice.. also most of them keep a diary on here on how their tank is ran and what they do exactly.,

 

[MoshJosh]

not just in reefing but in pretty much everything, we can succeed and fail in spite of ourselves . Then attribute those successes and failures to something we did or didn’t do, a product we used or didn’t use, etc. . . even if they have nothing to do with the results.

 

[Salty_Northerner]

I literally started a thread a while back saying practically the same exact thing...you wouldn't believe the hate i got for that

I chimed in on a thread a few days ago where I was basically spat on and told I was wrong over the stupidest thing. So iin my final reply I just said okay and then I hit unwatch thread. If a person can't take into account on someone else's way of doing things then why keep posting, it's easier just to walk away and find a different thread to type in. I've been with this community a couple months maybe and I've only come across one thread where I felt like I was being pick at over my comment on how I actually do it myself.

Anyways happy reefing everyone and have a fantastic day!

 

[HankstankXXL750]

If you search this forum it’s gonna be very discouraging just for the simple fact everyone has opinions and what works for some doesn’t work for others.. the best advice I can give anyone on this forum that’s just starting out is..

find a reefer with an amazing tank and get to know them and follow their ways… I can say almost everyone of them is likely to help you or give you advice.. also most of them keep a diary on here on how their tank is ran and what they do exactly.,

While I agree with this statement, another thought IMO is when researching a question read many sources. Generally if there is a common thread (I assume) that it is probably good advice. Doesn’t always make it true.

For example:

You will find a general consensus that Tangs need a big tank with plenty of swimming room. This will be said over and over again.

The sheer volume of people stating this lend credence to this belief.

You can find people who will post that they have Tangs in smaller tanks. I have a purple in a 75 and 2 Tomini and 2 scopus in 50g lowboy frag tanks 1 in each of four tanks.
But I would never tell anyone this is optimum or even desired. The purple will be rehomed to another tank at some time, but when I set up my 210 and bought the others for it, they were way smaller, so now he will go into one of my larger mixed tanks.
The Frag guys will have to be replaced with smaller ones again at some point and I will have to rehome the grown ones to my other tanks.

All of that just to say recurring themes probably make them something to follow.

 

[Dan_P]

At risk of repeating myself, let me give a simple example:

Question: is it Ok to use tap water in a reef aquarium?
Answer: Yes

Question: What is the basis for thinking it is OK to use?
Answer: It works for me


The first answer has the obvious problem that the answer didn't give any justification for it, and a new reefer might take away that simple answer, unless there is the follow up question.

The follow up question is at the heart of this thread. It works for me is a personal experience, really of unknown merit since "works" is quite ambiguous, and the nature fo the tap water used is unknown.

Vendor product claims seem to belong in the “it works for me” category. If so, this might be a case where professional and amateur levels of dubious information generation exist. I wonder which level gets more followup questions?

 

[HankstankXXL750]

I chimed in on a thread a few days ago where I was basically spat on and told I was wrong over the stupidest thing. So iin my final reply I just said okay and then I hit unwatch thread. If a person can't take into account on someone else's way of doing things then why keep posting, it's easier just to walk away and find a different thread to type in. I've been with this community a couple months maybe and I've only come across one thread where I felt like I was being pick at over my comment on how I actually do it myself.

Anyways happy reefing everyone and have a fantastic day!

Oh I love a good argument, but only when I know I’m right. Not feel I’m right but know for a fact.
I have found that if someone comes back hard, I will just say this works for me, if that works for you great. However if that person is dispensing “BAD” “Harmful” info I find a way to comment about it’s possible negative impacts for others to help less experienced reefer avoid a trap.

Use Randy’s example of Tap Water. I would say something like be sure if it is city water that they don’t treat it with harmful chemicals and test nitrates and phosphates to ensure your water changes are actually helping.

 

[Dan_P]

The sheer volume of people stating this lend credence to this belief.

There are many, many claims about Big Foot sightings too. Numbers may not mean much if they rely on repeating the same misinformation.

 

[HankstankXXL750]

There are many, many claims about Big Foot sightings too. Numbers may not mean much if they rely on repeating the same misinformation.

Which is true as well. But then he saw me once and none of his family believes him. However if you research Big Foot you will find probably more information saying that it is a myth (or at least unproven) than you will find stating that he is real.

Although I would think that is really stretching my premise. So for myself I discovered clownfish eggs for the first time and decided I wanted to try to raise them. So vs looking at one Utube video or reading one website I watched and read several. I found many common threads throughout. Such as culture rotifers as they need a good food source almost all said this (a very few said you could feed them chromaboost dry food) since they said it worked I’m guessing it did, but I went the rotifer route as it was predominant. Then said to start with the same tank water as the hatch tank (one said 50/50, and maybe one said fresh mixed clean water) so I went with tank water as it was the major consensus. Has been very successful.

So although it is possible for many sites and people to promote the same wrong theory it is more likely that if it is in the majority it probably works (nothing is fail safe).

Pair that with finding a trusted source (Bulk Reef Supply videos, Humblefish, etc.) and if those sources also mirror the majority you probably won’t go wrong. Verses following advice about something that one or two people are saying that differs from the majority IMO is more risky. Never will I say that those one or two people are wrong, but their success could be proven to be scientifically sound or it could be a fluke or dependent upon another process that isn’t even being discussed.

 

[00W]

Thank you Randy for all you have brought to my reefing experience over the years.
I try to not get involved in anything as much as possible.
I am very grateful for this community and to all I've learned anything from.
After 35 years in this hobby, the one thing I know is I don't know very much.
I believe answers backed with kindness and knowledge is the only way to go.

 

[Dan_P]

Which is true as well. But then he saw me once and none of his family believes him. However if you research Big Foot you will find probably more information saying that it is a myth (or at least unproven) than you will find stating that he is real.

Although I would think that is really stretching my premise. So for myself I discovered clownfish eggs for the first time and decided I wanted to try to raise them. So vs looking at one Utube video or reading one website I watched and read several. I found many common threads throughout. Such as culture rotifers as they need a good food source almost all said this (a very few said you could feed them chromaboost dry food) since they said it worked I’m guessing it did, but I went the rotifer route as it was predominant. Then said to start with the same tank water as the hatch tank (one said 50/50, and maybe one said fresh mixed clean water) so I went with tank water as it was the major consensus. Has been very successful.

So although it is possible for many sites and people to promote the same wrong theory it is more likely that if it is in the majority it probably works (nothing is fail safe).

Pair that with finding a trusted source (Bulk Reef Supply videos, Humblefish, etc.) and if those sources also mirror the majority you probably won’t go wrong. Verses following advice about something that one or two people are saying that differs from the majority IMO is more risky. Never will I say that those one or two people are wrong, but their success could be proven to be scientifically sound or it could be a fluke or dependent upon another process that isn’t even being discussed.

A nice elaboration of the “safety in numbers” research approach. I use it as well.