Reefers may over-rely on personal experience to accept or reject truth

[BroccoliFarmer]

The difference? Science doesn’t care what anyone thinks.

But the Scientist does

 

[BirdFish5000]

I will post some, and you can see a work thread is hundreds of reefers showing up for help on a given subject matter. we do the same repeating action for every entrant in the thread.

<snip>

I, too, like cheesecake.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Randy

Are you guilty of the inverse to this thread?


There's a rinse sand post/ should I rinse new sand in tap/ thread out in the new forum

Those are controversial

Should I wash my sand before adding it into my tank?

I just got dry sand (not live) and I'm not sure if I should wash it or not. I've seen some people wash it, but I've also seen people that don't wash it. If I do need to wash it, what is the process of washing it? Also, should I wash it in just tap water or would I have to wash it in salt water?

www.reef2reef.com

1000% of people who do not make work threads using *other people's reefs vs their own* will tell this poster rinsing in tap is bad, and has consequences compared to not rinsing in tap water. i don't feel like I'm making up things to state you'd advise against it

So what if rules a scientist states don't line up one iota with a nine year proof work thread? At what point is stated science fact preventing ideal procedural change in the hobby? How can ironclad science rules ever evolve, if folks comment to pre rinse questions purposefully omitting massive data sets that run opposite to their science?

Can science ever be wrong in a matter? If I take the tap sand rinse thread out to 150 pages of perfect outcome will it eventually replace the notion that tap rinsing is bad? Can any new finding alter that claim, or does it get to stick as a base rule claim forever, no matter how much proof we make to the contrary?


It astonishes me when posters are given advice in the matter to the opposite of massive work threads and if I didn't hop into the discussion to show it to them they'd never see it

It seems like science tries to gatekeep and stop change it doesn't like by deeming anything contrary as anecdotal and not accurate. If I had only 3 bad outcomes in that sand rinse thread of 51 pgs I would shut the thread down/ request it deleted. Many years plus 51 pages plus reefs from every walk of life totally happy with tap rinsing means something to science

I don’t think I did the inverse.

Providing an opinion that there are clear reasons to not do something, and stating that while I have done it, I would not generally recommend doing so is hardly an opinion based on my personal experience over scientific facts. Quite the opposite.

I don’t think your threads show there is not ever a disadvantage rinsing sand in tap water.

 

[brandon429]

ok, if that's what is taken away from the data then that's accepted. thank you for the input.

 

[brandon429]

until someone writes and manages a work thread transferring tanks using another method I guess we have to accept that tap water is the stand in. There's no possible way I'd advise folks to use ro di or saltwater, they'll run out partial rinse and end up crashing their system by not being snowglobe clean on the transfer. if your analysis is right then we're having to tradeoff some po4 and cu exposure for simply not killing reef tanks, detritus in states of rot stratified within a sandbed is much more dangerous, I have links on page one showing tank losses from that.

I agree and am aware that detritus piled inches thick, aerated in a sump and not stratified under impacted sand is not dangerous. I relay that to reefers based on your example and several others/aerated detritus is not a killer/agreed.


I predict nobody can replicate that amount of work without tap water, someone step up to check it. make a rinseless tank transfer thread, or one that eschews tap water for rodi or saltwater, that would be an amazing macna analysis after a few years running.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

if we did not have the work thread, we would not have safe tank transfers and super clean startups that make everyone happy.

No one ever did a safe tank transfer before you started a thread about it? lol

I rinsed oolitic aragonite in tap water before REEF2REEF existed. It worked.

 

[Garf]

No one ever did a safe tank transfer before you started a thread about it? lol

I rinsed oolitic aragonite in tap water before REEF2REEF existed. It worked.

Brandon invented it. And ignoring test results that didn’t comply

 

[brandon429]

=working in your tank and telling me about it vs a work thread using other people's tanks I can read to get my own takeaway.

my posts aren't about my reef, my posts use other's reefs. I would like to see commentary around what works as an alternative for other's reefs in bulk for eight years.


if you yourself couldnt effect a clean tank transfer I'd be concerned about the future of reefing in general, of course you can. you don't reef in a way that builds up dangerous items in the to-be-transferred tank.

joe from down the street does.

I would be very interested in seeing your version of the tank transfer work thread where nobody uses tap, and people who are not chemists show up for help and don't tell you everything they need to know for the transfer-you have to predict it for them based on the wins and losses of those who came before.

our losses in tank transfers were in the nano-reef.com threads from fifteen years ago, we killed some tanks just by moving sand over without a rinse. rtr got the modified rinse all in tap for hours until snowglobe clean, and we're at no crashes. however you derive a bad outcome from the jobs it's not found as losses. perhaps reinvasion, we didn't produce 100% permanently fixed tanks in our cyano attacks, maybe po4 attachment did that. heck I'm not sure what in reefing does cure a tank permanently of cyano, the hint seems to exist that standard is available though. love to see the thread on it. using others reefs...


I'm not talking objective chemistry rules, that doesn't apply for tank transfers to variations involved. of course the hardfast rules of calcium/alk/ph/phosphate can be told by you outbound to apply in other's reefs for a 100% safe outcome, agreed on that. your post history shows it plainly. everyone likes the outcomes you give them relaying hardfast chemistry rules. I try and skim up what I can to learn.

I don't think you'd have as easy of a time with the nuances involved in messy tank transfers from public reefs, if there's a thread by any person on that please let me see it. from any era, on any board, I would really love to see a comparative work thread on tank transfers in one single read.

 

[Thales]

--

 

[old_lady_4am]

Yikes. I’m glad this wasn’t the first thread I ever read before joining R2R. Condescending replies and political put downs are such a turn off. ​

 

[BroccoliFarmer]

Yikes. I’m glad this wasn’t the first thread I ever read before joining R2R. Condescending replies and political put downs are such a turn off. ​

You know what they say, opinions and blank holes…everyone has one and they all stink. Or my take on it: All have the former, many are the latter

 

[brandon429]

'Brandon invented it. And ignoring test results that didn’t comply '

test results, from non digital test kits stating some positive aspect of nh4? oh yes we all know that means a cycle is dead


this is why I make critics remark upon wipeouts and crashes, dead fish and corals, anything objective. you can't go eight years with no crashes doing ammonia insults, across thirty threads.


If I didnt invent it, there will be a mighty big old thread I can read without having to ask nineteen times while being dodged with snarky comments. that thread won't just be one person's tank, it will be 200 mixed reefs. I'll be curious to see who tied in light burning/ high PAR bleaching prevention in tank transfers before our logged work. BRS sure the heck did not find that part out.

I have a feeling, we aren't going to see any other threads on the matter. accept that however you will Garf.
at the end of the day we're just going right back to common tank jobs while all the negativity remains here, no negativity will be found from any entrant in our work threads. they'll be happy.

 

[Garf]

Yikes. I’m glad this wasn’t the first thread I ever read before joining R2R. Condescending replies and political put downs are such a turn off. ​

I missed the political bit, Randy doesn’t allow them on this forum, perhaps that was unrelated comment.

 

[CoastalTownLayabout]

I came for the chemistry but stayed for the behavioural science.

 

[Garf]

If I didnt invent it, there will be a mighty big old thread I can read without having to ask nineteen times while being dodged with snarky comments. I have a feeling, we aren't going to see any other threads on the matter.

I’m actually worried about your mental wellbeing, from a family with issues. You do actually think you invented rinsing sand, that’s scary. You may need to be banned for your own good.

 

[A_Blind_Reefer]

I came for the chemistry but stayed for the behavioural science.

I…..am…..dying….laughing. Thank you! I may need to up my meds

 

[BroccoliFarmer]

I’m actually worried about your mental wellbeing, from a family with issues. You do actually think you invented rinsing sand, that’s scary. You may need to be banned for your own good.

I knew a guy who thought he invented mtv by suggesting a Wedding band record themselves as a promotional process. You just laugh, roll your eyes and ask him to puff puff and pass already.

 

[Garf]

I knew a guy who thought he invented mtv by suggesting a Wedding band record themselves as a promotional process. You just laugh, roll your eyes and ask him to puff puff and pass already.

My avatar is a symbol of autism. Me, my wife and 2 kids, my stepson and brother in law are autistic. It’s a massive spectrum of intelligence and abilities, trust me. I wouldn’t swap it for the world, it’s us.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Ok, folks, the thread was spinning out of control and management decided to lock it to prevent further violations of the terms of service.

Try to not let this happen in other threads.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Reopening this thread. Play nice. Don't cause it to be closed again.