Seachem Ammonia Alert Question

[nbd13]

Hey everyone,

So I got home today and my ammonia alert badge was in the green. I’m following HumbleFishes method.

I still have till 3/4 until the copper treatment is up.

I changed 50% of the water in the QT. Matched temp, salinity and copper.

But is the ammonia badge done and I need to replace it? Will it come back to the yellow or once it goes higher (green) in my case it’s done?

Thanks,

Nick

 

[Geebs19]

It will go back down to yellow if the ammonia drops.

I actually keep mine in my sump when I am not using it in QT. It takes about 4 hours to go from toxic to yellow.

 

[nbd13]

It will go back down to yellow if the ammonia drops.

I actually keep mine in my sump when I am not using it in QT. It takes about 4 hours to go from toxic to yellow.

Oh good. I was worried. I thought it should drop back to yellow instantly.

Good to know it takes a few hours!

Not sure why the ammonia went up. I used fritz turbo start 900 to seed the HOB filter sponge.

 

[Geebs19]

Oh good. I was worried. I thought it should drop back to yellow instantly.

Good to know it takes a few hours!

Not sure why the ammonia went up. I used fritz turbo start 900 to seed the HOB filter sponge.

Is that all thats in the QT? What do you have for livestock in there? A sponge really wont hold that much beneficial bacteria, at least not enough to process a lot of ammonia fast. My last go around I had the sponge, and 2 small live rocks in there and still got a spike with a foxface and 2 gobies.

 

[nbd13]

Is that all thats in the QT? What do you have for livestock in there? A sponge really wont hold that much beneficial bacteria, at least not enough to process a lot of ammonia fast. My last go around I had the sponge, and 2 small live rocks in there and still got a spike with a foxface and 2 gobies.

I have 3 Borbonius Anthias and 2 small davinchi clowns.

I thought that’s what everyone did was a HOB with sponge.

 

[User]

I have 3 Borbonius Anthias and 2 small davinchi clowns.

I thought that’s what everyone did was a HOB with sponge.

Nylon Pillow stuffing or filter floss.

The sponge is too porous and doesn’t hold nearly as much bacteria as the floss will

Lol, that’s my emergency stash of HOB floss...

 

[nbd13]

Nylon Pillow stuffing or filter floss.

The sponge is too porous and doesn’t hold nearly as much bacteria as the floss will

[/IMG]

Lol, that’s my emergency stash of HOB floss...

Picture didn’t show up. So you just get filter floss and add it to the HOB filter where the sponge would go?

Thanks.

 

[User]

I put sponge on bottom of the holder, for removing big chunks of food etc, then a handful of that floss. I put it in a mesh baggy that came with the hob fit holding ceramic media

I actually put it in a small Tupperware with tank water, squirt half a bottle of biospira in it and let it sit fir an hour while I set everything up. Then put the floss in the hob and dump the water/bacteria mix in the hob and turn everything on

 

[nbd13]

I put sponge on bottom of the holder, for removing big chunks of food etc, then a handful of that floss. I put it in a mesh baggy that came with the hob fit holding ceramic media

I actually put it in a small Tupperware with tank water, squirt half a bottle of biospira in it and let it sit fir an hour while I set everything up. Then put the floss in the hob and dump the water/bacteria mix in the hob and turn everything on

Where did you get floss from?

Thanks

 

[User]

The pillow in post 6...

But Walmart sells a huge bag for like $6

 

[nbd13]

The pillow in post 6...

But Walmart sells a huge bag for like $6

Haha I thought you were joking! Didn’t realize it was in fact pillow stuffing.

 

[Lasse]

Nylon Pillow stuffing or filter floss.

The sponge is too porous and doesn’t hold nearly as much bacteria as the floss

That´s not really true. The sponge is 3 dimensional in construction and if you have a rather high flow through it (and the sponge is not too fine - 30 ppi is best IMO) you will have the best biological filter you can get - it is as good as a trickle filter. you will have nitrification in every poor in the filter

10 ppi sponges and floss will become tight very quickly and prevents the flow of oxygen-rich water, hence the internal parts become oxygen deficient and poor in nitrification.

Sincerely Lasse

 

[nbd13]

That´s not really true. The sponge is 3 dimensional in construction and if you have a rather high flow through it (and the sponge is not too fine - 30 ppi is best IMO) you will have the best biological filter you can get - it is as good as a trickle filter. you will have nitrification in every poor in the filter

10 ppi sponges and floss will become tight very quickly and prevents the flow of oxygen-rich water, hence the internal parts become oxygen deficient and poor in nitrification.

Sincerely Lasse

How do you know the ppi of the sponge?

 

[Lasse]

The sponges we use in Europe use to have it in the declaration - but this is 10 ppi

This is 30 ppi

Sincerely Lasse

 

[User]

That´s not really true. The sponge is 3 dimensional in construction and if you have a rather high flow through it (and the sponge is not too fine - 30 ppi is best IMO) you will have the best biological filter you can get - it is as good as a trickle filter. you will have nitrification in every poor in the filter

10 ppi sponges and floss will become tight very quickly and prevents the flow of oxygen-rich water, hence the internal parts become oxygen deficient and poor in nitrification.

Sincerely Lasse

The pillow stuffing literally doesn’t have a PPI- it entirely depends on how much you stuff in the chamber. I put enough in so that water flow is not retarded, and no anoxic areas can form. Ends up being about a softball amount in the chamber of an Aquaclear 50. In this situation, you can obtain a higher initial bacterial density loading than you can with the typical sponge, and if you use a good bottle of fritz or biospira and presoak like I mentioned, the QT is almost instantly ‘cycled’, which is what the OP needs.

Volume for volume- the stuffing has far higher surface area. And the flow rates for these hob filters are too low to reach into the ‘optimal conditions’ you mention.

 

[nbd13]

The pillow stuffing literally doesn’t have a PPI- it entirely depends on how much you stuff in the chamber. I put enough in so that water flow is not retarded, and no anoxic areas can form. Ends up being about a softball amount in the chamber of an Aquaclear 50. In this situation, you can obtain a higher initial bacterial density loading than you can with the typical sponge, and if you use a good bottle of fritz or biospira and presoak like I mentioned, the QT is almost instantly ‘cycled’, which is what the OP needs.

Volume for volume- the stuffing has far higher surface area. And the flow rates for these hob filters are too low to reach into the ‘optimal conditions’ you mention.

Good to know as I have an aqua clear filter.

 

[User]

Good to know as I have an aqua clear filter.

So, you have one of those mesh socks that the stone media goes into. Stuff about a fist size amount of the mesh in there, put it into a Tupperware or pint ice cream container and add tank water until it’s just about submerged. Add 1/2-2/3 big bottle of biospira, mix it all together so that it distributes, then let it sit for an hour. Pull the grey filter holder out of the hob, put the sponge on the bottom, the floss in the bag on top, and put it back in the hob. Pour the water/bacteria into the filter chamber. Then turn on the hob. I do this literally before I go to the LFS to buy a fish (unless I’ve got available floss sitting in my sump) and it runs for an hour before I’m home again and the fish are floating on top to temp acclimate.

My last 10 g QT had a mag Foxface for 4 weeks of various treatments and my badge didn’t go off yellow.

I’ve done this for 2 clowns, a pink spot goby, a bunch of anthias, and a Randall’s goby in separate occasions.

 

[nbd13]

So, you have one of those mesh socks that the stone media goes into. Stuff about a fist size amount of the mesh in there, put it into a Tupperware or pint ice cream container and add tank water until it’s just about submerged. Add 1/2-2/3 big bottle of biospira, mix it all together so that it distributes, then let it sit for an hour. Pull the grey filter holder out of the hob, put the sponge on the bottom, the floss in the bag on top, and put it back in the hob. Pour the water/bacteria into the filter chamber. Then turn on the hob. I do this literally before I go to the LFS to buy a fish (unless I’ve got available floss sitting in my sump) and it runs for an hour before I’m home again and the fish are floating on top to temp acclimate.

My last 10 g QT had a mag Foxface for 4 weeks of various treatments and my badge didn’t go off yellow.

I’ve done this for 2 clowns, a pink spot goby, a bunch of anthias, and a Randall’s goby in separate occasions.

Thanks! I’ll do that!

 

[User]

Also- the badge needs backlighting to read it accurately. It’ll sometimes go slightly green (slightly as in ‘is it/ isn’t it- you won’t confuse it with a true alert green) in brand new saltwater but will show yellow with backlighting.

 

[Lasse]

In a typical biofilm - only the first micrometer have enough of oxygen in order to get a good nitrification - especially with salt water. With dense material as your pillow floss you will have clogging of inactive biofilm that content organic matter – organic matter will favour the more fast-growing heterotrophic bacteria and they will outcompete the slower growing nitrification bacteria. The best nitrification material is a fast-flowing trickle filter – the flow will auto rinse the filter material from too thick bacteria film – leaving a thin film with active nitrification bacteria. The Kaldnes process with a moving bed is as good. In an aquarium – especially with a low bio load – 30 ppi sponges with a high flow through the filter is nearly as good as the others because the water motion in the pores are high, hence the water will flush and polish the biofilm in the pores. However – the normal 10 ppi sponges are as bad as fluss IMO. If the water is pressed through the biofilm – oxygen depletion will be too much – you can´t have a thick biofilm doing nitrification – the water has to go along the biofilm, hence big pores with good flow are better than small that will be clogged.

The bacteria is not a chemical thing – you can´t initial get better results with a lot of it – because if there is no food (NH3/NH4 or NO2) they will not grow, however they will not die either – as soon as food come along – they will wake up and start working. Why your method works well – maybe it is because you overdose the bacteria not because the floss is best.

And the load of NH3/NH4 into the water depends mostly of your feeding regim - not how many fish you have

Sincerely Lasse