Shut that Skimmer Down! Over skimming your tank.

[Russ265]

My old eshoppes skimmer motor died for the second time, so I decided to buy a new larger skimmer al together. Through the five days I waited for my new skimmer to arrive I saw a substantial increase in polyp extension, especially my rainbow trachy.

slowly. through accidents. these things prove my point

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

My old eshoppes skimmer motor died for the second time, so I decided to buy a new larger skimmer al together. Through the five days I waited for my new skimmer to arrive I saw a substantial increase in polyp extension, especially my rainbow trachy.

Lack of skimming might leave more food for filter feeders, but it might also relate to aeration or even water flow, depending on your setup.

If you put an LPS in a low flow situation, they can expand tremendously, possibly in an effort to get enough gas exchange or waste removal.

 

[twilliard]

What time of the day do you suggest to turn off the skimmer then? Im up for the idea.

When you clean it

 

[Sabellafella]

My old eshoppes skimmer motor died for the second time, so I decided to buy a new larger skimmer al together. Through the five days I waited for my new skimmer to arrive I saw a substantial increase in polyp extension, especially my rainbow trachy.

My 100l i took my skimmer off completely just because i do waterchanges and run carbon nd it seemed to do absolutly nothing , on the otherhand i had my skimmer on my 200 just run about 18 hours a day around night time just to see what would happen Nd after about 2 weeks majority of my lps nd zoas got darker nd yes polyp extension was better, only problem is my collection cup is covered in a quarter inch of sewage stanky mud slick in about 24 hours witch kinda makes me not want to shut it completely because i dont kno if my tank can handle that

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

yeah well... tell the scientific journal that. foam fracturing is chemical and will always be so.

the cause for surface tension is the difference in the energetic state between a molecule at the surface compared to a molecule inside the liquid phase: the molecule inside has lower energetic state as it has more inermolecular interactions (or, to get to the surface, a molecule needs to break intermolecular bonds, which needs energy). This is more pronounced with higher polarity or when ions (charges) are around as the interactions are then stronger.

You can increase the polarity of a (polar) solvent to get higher surface tension, by dissolving salts.

i feel i am being trolled....

I am quite aware of these facts. In fact, my PhD in Physical Chemistry from Harvard was focused on surface chemistry. None of what you said suggests that adsorption of organics at an air/water interface is anything but a physical process.

You do realize that water evaporating from a droplet is a physical process and not a chemical process? If you do not, then you have a different definition than is standard among chemists.

You are not being trolled. You are being corrected by someone who is an expert in the field and knows what he is talking about.

 

[twilliard]

Foam fracturing is chemical Russ???

 

[Sabellafella]

I also have about 17.0 stray volts comming from my skimmer so im prob going to go without it for a while eventually

 

[Russ265]

I am quite aware of these facts. In fact, my PhD in Physical Chemistry from Harvard was focused on surface chemistry. None of what you said suggests that adsorption of organics at an air/water interface is anything but a physical process.

You do realize that water evaporating from a droplet is a physical process and not a chemical process? If you do not, then you have a different definition than is standard among chemists.

You are not being trolled. You are being corrected by someone who is an expert in the field and knows what he is talking about.

no. i have someone with a harvard phd that first told me water wasnt homogenous. then backtracked.

then told me foam fractionating is physical/mechanical instead of chemical.

i gave you a very elementary example of foam fractionating and you still ride this doc bandwagon like that is what skimmers are all about when it is not.

the concept of skimmers and the tech behind it is chemical in nature. so open all your windows, and state its the same thing. it is not.

i tried to touch on this with my water droplet question. but you didnt bite. so a harder approach was in order.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

slowly. through accidents. these things prove my point

Not sure which point that is, but skimming vs not skimming is entirely different point than trying to convince people about the relative effectiveness of wet vs dry skimming in terms of organic removal.

In my case, I saw no clear difference other than inadequate aeration when I turned off my skimmer for a few months, so I'm not going to challenge folks who prefer no skimming, as long as they have some way to export organics.

 

[Russ265]

Not sure which point that is, but skimming vs not skimming is entirely different point than trying to convince people about the relative effectiveness of wet vs dry skimming in terms of organic removal.

In my case, I saw no clear difference other than inadequate aeration when I turned off my skimmer for a few months.

...and how much foam fractionating was happening when it was turned off?
none.
only thing was inadequate aeration?

oh... i thought the doc sky would fall.

you prove my point too

 

[twilliard]

Oh no my skimmer is an over glorified air tube!
What shall I do lol

Have to add funny to this 12 hour argument

 

[Triggreef]

Anyone else want in? How about skimmers VS skimmer less? Lol just for fun.

Hey back to the important stuff... I've already won 2 of these, skimmer less. Would love to try a 3rd...

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

no. i have someone with a harvard phd that first told me water wasnt homogenous. then backtracked.

then told me foam fractionating is physical/mechanical instead of chemical.

i gave you a very elementary example of foam fractionating and you still ride this doc bandwagon like that is what skimmers are all about when it is not.

the concept of skimmers and the tech behind it is chemical in nature. so open all your windows, and state its the same thing. it is not.

i tried to touch on thid with my water droplet question. but you didnt bite. so a harder approach was in order.

TROLL. TROLL TROLL

Don't put your own wrong words in my mouth.

The water in a skimmer neck is not homogeneous. No backtracking. Sorry you do not understand enough chemistry to understand how it isn't homogeneous despite repeated explanations.

Skimmers are an entirely physical process. Again, I'm sorry you do not understand that term enough to understand what it means despite repeated explanations.

Docs are an important part of what skimmers do. Removing POC is also important. The wet vs dry issues relate almost identically to a bacterium vs a dissolved organic molecule. No hedging or overemphasis on DOCs to prove any point.

Your water droplet question was complete and perfect proof you do not understand a physical vs a chemical process if you think two drops of water merging is a chemical process

TROLL TROLL TROLL

 

[Russ265]

Hey back to the important stuff... I've already won 2 of these, skimmer less. Would love to try a 3rd...

lets do it

 

[Triggreef]

I say we go with pearl berry since I see so many reefers that have trouble with it.

 

[Russ265]

TROLL. TROLL TROLL

Don't put your own wrong words in my mouth.

The water in a skimmer neck is not homogeneous. No backtracking. Sorry you do not understand enough chemistry to understand how it isn't homogeneous despite repeated explanations.

Skimmers are an entirely physical process. Again, I'm sorry you do not understand that term enough to understand what it means despite repeated explanations.

Docs are an important part of what skimmers do. Removing POC is also important. The wet vs dry issues relate almost identically to a bacterium vs a dissolved organic molecule. No hedging or overemphasis on DOCs to prove any point.

Your water droplet question was complete and perfect proof you do not understand a physical vs a chemical process if you think two dropsof water merging is a chemical process

TROLL TROLL TROLL

again oversimplified at best
misconstrued at worst.

ill let this be for now.

but no. skimmers methods for export will never be mechanical in nature. ask your professor. (or anyone can)

protein skimmers work off a chemical process. not physical. and if you want argue the sky is red. by all means.

no one in the scientific community will agree with you that "foam fractionating " is physical or mechanical.

 

[Greenstreet.1]

I say we go with pearl berry since I see so many reefers that have trouble with it.

Lol wrong place

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

...and how much foam fractionating was happening when it was turned off?
none.
only thing was inadequate aeration?

oh... i thought the doc sky would fall.

you prove my point too

What point? Not anything I challenged.

I never claimed skimming was critical. Please show where I did.

I'm just trying to clarify your incorrect assertions about how skimming works.

Knowing how it works and saying you need it or not are totally different.

I do think people need some sort of DOC removal to prevent yellowing, but GAC or ozone can prevent that (although ozone only makes,the DOCs less yellow, it doesn't usually remove then in the way a reefer usually uses ozone).

Other products like Purigen would probably also suffice.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

again oversimplified at best
misconstrued at worst.

ill let this be for now.

but no. skimmers methods for export will never be mechanical in nature. ask your professor. (or anyone can)

protein skimmers work off a chemical process. not physical. and if you want argue the sky is red. by all means.

no one in the scientific community will agree with you that "foam fractionating " is physical or mechanical.

Again, that is hogwash. Every professional chemist will agree with me. There is no chemical reaction taking place, no matter how many times you claim it.

That said, no user of a skimmer really cares whether one characterizes the process in one way or another. It is a semantic difference once all the individual steps are agreed upon.

We seem to have disagreement on the actual steps, such as whether draining of the foam occurs, but I agree that we should drop the semantic debate.

 

[Russ265]

What point? Not anything I challenged.

I never claimed skimming was critical. Please show where I did.

I'm just trying to clarify your incorrect assertions about how skimming works.

Knowing how it works and saying you need it or not are totally different.

I do think people need some sort of DOC removal to prevent yellowing, but GAC or ozone can prevent that (although ozone only makes,the DOCs less yellow, it doesn't usually remove then in the way a reefer usually uses ozone).

Other products like Purigen would probably also suffice.

... randy.

you win
idk what im talking about and you are right.

/done with this thread