Synergy Shadow Overflow Flow Adjustment

[Shirak]

Really confused by all this. Should water level in tank be too the top of the weirs?

The level in the tank in relation to the weirs will be determined by size of internal box and amount of water return pump is sending to the tank. If water is to the top of the weirs reduce the return pump flow .. or get a bigger internal overflow

 

[NabberNate]

I have an external Synergy reef 16" overflow and I'm trying to tune this thing unsuccessfully.

 

[Shirak]

I have an external Synergy reef 16" overflow and I'm trying to tune this thing unsuccessfully.

Looks like there is a hole on top of the U on the main drain??? That should not be there and will cause the water level in the external box to be higher than it should when the main line is quiet at full siphon, which will cause more water to go down the secondary and suck air instead of trickle.

 

[Jbell370]

I have an external Synergy reef 16" overflow and I'm trying to tune this thing unsuccessfully.

Here is a couple pics I just took, lights are not on yet, best I could get, first is right side with the secondary pipe then left with full submerged main and exit to sump last.

Close your gate on the most of the way until your main is covered. You can fine tune from there.

 

[NabberNate]

So both of my u fittings have a hole in the top but the primary isn't creating any bubbles. The best way I can get this to flow without making any cuts yet is to remove the primary stand pipe completelyand have the secondary point the u fitting toward the primary. Bubbles are less on the secondary but still there. Obviously this doesn't seem right.

 

[Shirak]

So both of my u fittings have a hole in the top but the primary isn't creating any bubbles. The best way I can get this to flow without making any cuts yet is to remove the primary stand pipe completelyand have the secondary point the u fitting toward the primary. Bubbles are less on the secondary but still there. Obviously this doesn't seem right.

Plug the hole in the top of the U on the main drain and start there.

 

[Jbell370]

For sure, I tried everything that you are currently thinking, primary has a u and no hole also the lowest of the three. Your other two are fine. Once you plug the hole, close your gate and start from there, gradually! Trust me was not instant, took a few minutes each 1/4 turn until dead silent.

 

[NabberNate]

Ok. So I'm getting closer. I dialed my flow into the tank way back since I have gate valves on the returns too. Is it possible just too much flow? The pump is big it's a fluval sp6.

 

[zukihara]

Ok. So I'm getting closer. I dialed my flow into the tank way back since I have gate valves on the returns too. Is it possible just too much flow? The pump is big it's a fluval sp6.

For me adjusting flow made a difference, but it was not consistent.

 

[Jbell370]

For me adjusting flow made a difference, but it was not consistent

Ok. So I'm getting closer. I dialed my flow into the tank way back since I have gate valves on the returns too. Is it possible just too much flow? The pump is big it's a fluval sp6.

That could well be, without Apex my cor was running how I set it on the controller, once connected and calibrated it became loud again and was running way too fast. It now runs 57% and works great. I only have 1 gate on my return as the sump is offset to the left, to balance flow to both sides the shortest run got the gate. I have not connected the flow meters yet, not accurate, but matching numbers on each will be close enough.

 

[Shirak]

Ok. So I'm getting closer. I dialed my flow into the tank way back since I have gate valves on the returns too. Is it possible just too much flow? The pump is big it's a fluval sp6.

Have you plugged that hole in the main U first?? That is causing the main line and secondary line to be exactly the same height in your external box which is not correct for it to function quietly and efficiently. It should be able to handle A LOT of flow and work properly.

Yes the fluval sp6 specs look like a lot of flow but the max flow rate is based at 0 head height. So you are not getting that amount even wide open on your tank. How big is your tank and what is the overflow rated for?

 

[NabberNate]

The tank is 150 gallons and the 16" Synergy reef overflow is rated up to 2500 gph. I have plugged the whole temporarily with tape and that did help. I have my return pump diverted to go through my aquac skimmer and then recirculates into the first chamber and I thought that extra flow would take up the excess but once I close my gate valves on my returns it forces too much through the skimmer. It is effectively my blow off valve.

 

[Shirak]

The tank is 150 gallons and the 16" Synergy reef overflow is rated up to 2500 gph. I have plugged the whole temporarily with tape and that did help. I have my return pump diverted to go through my aquac skimmer and then recirculates into the first chamber and I thought that extra flow would take up the excess but once I close my gate valves on my returns it forces too much through the skimmer. It is effectively my blow off valve.

sounds like you need a gate valve between the return and the skimmer as well then. That way you could control flow to the skimmer and tank separately. With the 16" synergy yes the return pump sounds like it could be oversized so turning it down would probably help with the overflow. with the hole plugged on the main U you can also try lowering that U down so there is a bigger difference between the height of the main and the 2nd line. That will allow for more water over the top of the main U before water starts to trickle down the 2nd and you should be able to open the gate valve a little more on the main which will help the flow rate from the pump.

 

[NabberNate]

sounds like you need a gate valve between the return and the skimmer as well then. That way you could control flow to the skimmer and tank separately. With the 16" synergy yes the return pump sounds like it could be oversized so turning it down would probably help with the overflow. with the hole plugged on the main U you can also try lowering that U down so there is a bigger difference between the height of the main and the 2nd line. That will allow for more water over the top of the main U before water starts to trickle down the 2nd and you should be able to open the gate valve a little more on the main which will help the flow rate from the pump.

No space for anything between. I'm thinking jebao 8000 which is controllable and put in place flex hose up to the diverter to quiet things down. This is getting beyond the thread though so I'll stick to tinkering with the overflow. Thanks all for the suggestions hopefully this is helping the original post too. I'm hijacking this thread.

 

[minus9]

Remember, you'll have to find the right height of the stand pipes for the main and secondary drains inside the external box. I cut a couple pieces before I found the right length between them. I think there was an inch or two difference, if not more when I found the right combo. I started with my gate valve wide open and slowly closed it before I found the right spot.
Shadow Overflow

 

[Tonii]

I thought I had read on the instructions to use both U pipes with the holes on top. One for the main and one for the secondary. But I guess I was mistaken. I just removed the U pipe from the main drain and dialed in the gate valve. Problem solved, no more bubbles and now its super quiet.

 

[ca1ore]

Putting a valve on the secondary simply defeats the bean redundancy. Cannot see why one would want to do that.

 

[NabberNate]

I thought I had read on the instructions to use both U pipes with the holes on top. One for the main and one for the secondary. But I guess I was mistaken. I just removed the U pipe from the main drain and dialed in the gate valve. Problem solved, no more bubbles and now its super quiet.

I requested a new u pipe from Synergy reef without a hole and they indicated all of them have the hole and its to introduce an anti siphon. Full text below...

"Hello David,

The u pipes are supposed to have holes in both pipes and this is how they are designed. We do not make u pipes without holes. You recieved the correct pipes.

The u pipes are not water tight and do not need to be water tight. The crack will not affect the function. If it was split into two pieces then it would not be usable for obvious reasons.

The primary u pipe will be under water completely submerged so the hole does not affect the function. What it does do is allows for a siphon break if the pumps shuts off so the overflow can restart itself without an airlock. The Secondary pipe has a hole in it to allow air to be injected into to flow which is how the overflow is designed to function. This is a partial siphon. If you are getting excessive noise or bubbles then you need to adjust your gate value. Adjust your gate valve because you may have too much flow going into the secondary pipe. The gate value is used to balance the flow between the primary and secondary."

My consensus is that the primary can pretty much be whatever you want as long as it's fully submerged. I tend to think I will close the hole though for less opportunuty for bubbles. For the anti siphon I did not want that much water to drain into my sump so I drilled a small hole in the back of 90 degree slip to npt elbows that installed just before my loc line. I went that route because the bulkheads I received with my tank were not threaded. I was a little miffed at first but in the end I think I like the 90 degree elbow because it doesn't protrude into the tank as far. It's a temporary test elbow that I dyed black. I ordered some nicer ones from a local plastic supplier in my area spears part 407-007B.

 

[Shirak]

Yes the primary can be many things.. I have a herbie (2 line) drain and just leave the primary bulkhead without anything in it. Risk is that something will clog the pipe but anything big enough to do that shouldn't get past the weirs anyway. You can try shortening the pipe on the primary and still use the U if you want. That will give more room above it before the secondary kicks in. On my herbie the water doesn't even go over the 2nd line.. it's about halfway up the pipe and the primary drain is quiet and sucks no air. It's a small tank though so the return is only a couple hundred gallons an hour. Just a matter of finding the right balance of flow so you are not sucking air and water both down the secondary.

 

[NabberNate]

So got my new jebao dcp 10000 today and it was the missing link. Being able to adjust the return flow allowed me to dial everything in correctly. The tank and drains are whispering now. I still have more flow through the secondary than I like but it's not sucking air loudly or creating excessive bubbles. When I try to make more flow through the primary it goes too low and throws things off. Perhaps lower in the overflow would help but I still suspect 1.5" drains on a 150 are just excessive. Had I known I would have reduced them to 1.25" and saved myself a bunch of money on schedule 80 fittings but the tank is happy so I'm happy. You guys are awesome!

Regarding the jebao, I used 1.25 braided flex hose and seriously I can't hear a thing. The only noise is water through the overflow and a relatively quiet air vacuum from my aquac skimmer. I'm buying a backup jebao because this pump is incredible for the price!