The Climate Change thread - news about the changing climate and the effects on reef ecosystems.

[Lebowski_]

I can guess who is in lockstep with the hypocrites.

You are making assumptions. I don’t know anyone who thinks celebrity wastefulness is ok.

Unfortunately, just stopping rich peoples yachts is not going to do much. I’d still love to see them get dinged for it, though.

 

[The_Paradox]

I’m always amazed that the people who like to assign blame to whatever force they choose never bring up the artificial Van Allen belts we created. I agree about co2 though. That’s why I have advocate for years in favour of deforestation to plant more corn.

 

[Oldreefer44]

All I know is that regardless of whether there is anyone to assign blame to, I have lived on this planet for over 7 decades and have seen the changes just in that short amount of time. I fear for the coral reefs and all of the downstream ramifications of their demise such as a third of pelagic plankton disappearing along with them. Thus resulting in a huge hole in the oceanic food chain what that will mean to all those that depend on the sea for their sustenance. Most of all I fear for my children and grandchildren. As a great philosopher once said (paraphrasing) there are none so blind as those who would not see"....on all sides of the argument.

 

[Doctorgori]

Some of the climate change stuff is baloney, I said some…
Granted One of the absolutely dumbest things the Europeans did was kill off 60 million bison that didn't need to have veterinarians or all apex predators removed and replace them with 60 million cattle….

Still I don’t think those 60 million bison produced any less “Emissions” than 60 million cattle… TBH I chuckle at some of this stuff

 

[BeanAnimal]

Amazing! I can't see the post you quoted but I think I know which one it was.

Then you would be spitting your coffee out because he clowned himself

Ohh wait you are being cheeky to let everyone know that you blocked me...

 

[The_Paradox]

Some of the climate change stuff is baloney, I said some…
Granted One of the absolutely dumbest things the Europeans did was kill off 60 million bison that didn't need to have veterinarians or all apex predators removed and replace them with 60 million cattle….

Still I don’t think those 60 million bison produced any less “Emissions” than 60 million cattle…

Maybe it’s a multi phase effort. Step two is level South America and plant corn. That would have a much larger effect than anything else proposed. Well short of that weird professor who advocates mass sterilization and suicide.

 

[BeanAnimal]

@Randy Holmes-Farley mentioned solar panels and electrified vehicles as two ways he has changed how he lives. Randy, what did you have to do to get your charger installed? I am guessing an electrician had to come in and run a new line with a 240v breaker?

Is it really a change for the net positive? One may want to ask what real resources go into the solar panels, cradle to grave and their longevity, as well as what is given up? The same with "electrified vehicles" and their gross cost/impact.

Not taking a side here (at all) but often what feels good or looks good is an illusion.

For everyone else, do your countries/regions have grants to improve efficiency?

A "grant" so - somebody else is paying your cost? I am not sure that this is a good thing. In the case of solar and "savings" who is saving and who is it costing? Could that money be better spent? Just something to ponder.

Going to be expensive to get these all cleaned up. I wish I lived in one of those little trailer homes - I bet the repairs would be much smaller and less costly

Certainly an option - honest question, what is stopping you?

 

[BeanAnimal]

Maybe it’s a multi phase effort. Step two is level South America and plant corn. That would have a much larger effect than anything else proposed. Well short of that weird professor who advocates mass sterilization and suicide.

Likely the only civilization in history to burn its food supply when other fuels are available...

Not to mention that unhealthy aspect of corn in everything.... I am on board with that

 

[BeanAnimal]

Some of the climate change stuff is baloney, I said some…
Granted One of the absolutely dumbest things the Europeans did was kill off 60 million bison that didn't need to have veterinarians or all apex predators removed and replace them with 60 million cattle….

Still I don’t think those 60 million bison produced any less “Emissions” than 60 million cattle… TBH I chuckle at some of this stuff

Ohh now they are going to kill off the cattle too because they fart too much.

 

[Reefering1]

Is it really a change for the net positive? One may want to ask what real resources go into the solar panels, cradle to grave and their longevity, as well as what is given up? The same with "electrified vehicles" and their gross cost/impact.

Not taking a side here (at all) but often what feels good or looks good is an illusion.


A "grant" so - somebody else is paying your cost? I am not sure that this is a good thing. In the case of solar and "savings" who is saving and who is it costing? Could that money be better spent? Just something to ponder.



Certainly an option - honest question, what is stopping you?

Good points. Anybody see pics of the mining operations that go into acquiring the materials to make these batteries for electric/hybrid vehicles? What do those machines run on?

 

[The_Paradox]

Likely the only civilization in history to burn its food supply when other fuels are available...

Not to mention that unhealthy aspect of corn in everything.... I am on board with that

Agreed!!!

Just gonna leave this here…

 

[MnFish1]

That is a whole other matter...

Take every one of the predictive models being used to drive climate action and pencil in from now moving forward ZERO man made emissions... The models all still predicts the same thing, like tapping the brakes milliseconds before impacting the brick wall. It may make you feel good for a moment, but changes nothing.

That was my point. In other words, I believe the climate is changing (which was a prerequisite to discussing in this thread apparently). That said - I think that I am not sure that I agree with the conclusion that most of that change is due to humans. Certainly, in both the US and Europe, the laws concerning pollution, emissions, etc are much stricter. The air and water are generally much cleaner than in the 1960's (when Lake Erie was basically dead water).

I think blaming humans for climate change, focusing so much on that, allows people to turn their heads to other problems that humans DO have a large and easily identifiable problem - i.e. pollution raw sewage in the ocean. etc.

 

[BeanAnimal]

Disclaimer I was a “coal miners daughter”

And I was a coal miner for ~15 years...

 

[Tangs-A-Lot]

“

Going to be expensive to get these all cleaned up. I wish I lived in one of those little trailer homes - I bet the repairs would be much smaller and less costly

Certainly an option - honest question, what is stopping you?”

He was just denigrating people that live in those types of homes. Just like he did with people that don’t believe in his theories, calling other peoples opinions “conspiracies” (when maybe his theories are the conspiracies).



The sun is a super major influence in our planet’s wellbeing. We are a mere speck and to think we can affect major change is quite a boast. The planet has been going through cycles, ups & downs for millions upon millions of years.

 

[BeanAnimal]

That was my point. In other words, I believe the climate is changing (which was a prerequisite to discussing in this thread apparently). That said - I think that I am not sure that I agree with the conclusion that most of that change is due to humans. Certainly, in both the US and Europe, the laws concerning pollution, emissions, etc are much stricter. The air and water are generally much cleaner than in the 1960's (when Lake Erie was basically dead water).

I think blaming humans for climate change, focusing so much on that, allows people to turn their heads to other problems that humans DO have a large and easily identifiable problem - i.e. pollution raw sewage in the ocean. etc.

Hey, wow! look - for once we somewhat agree on a few odds and ends... be careful, next thing ya know you may like me.

 

[The_Paradox]

i.e. pollution raw sewage in the ocean. etc.

That’s just nutrient dosing.

 

[Reefering1]

Hmm, middle of America is worse. Guess it must be all the farms and animals

Agreed!!!

Just gonna leave this here…

 

[MoshJosh]

That’s just nutrient dosing.

People pay good money to dose high quality nutrients like that!

 

[Wasabiroot]

If you care about climate change then why are you in a hobby where we literally buy rocks from the otherside of the world to then put them in our living rooms and hopefully kill them as slowly as possible.

This is like being worried about falling bullets while spraying machine gun fire into the air.

Yes the climate is changing, obviously... But what can you do about it? Not much really.

Why is climate change always measured in weird ways... "Hours per year above 105F". Is this actually a way to measure temperature shift?

I live in a town that was meant to be underwater by 2012 from what I learned in highschool, it's still very much above the water line.

Antarctica just recorded it's coldest temperature ever this month, ice is growing there and yet people predicted that would be gone long ago.

Also the earth is only warming when compared to 1850, which was the coldest period in the last 10,000 years.


This graph puts things into perspective, and it's from Climate.gov, not some nutters website created in their mothers basement.

What's the hottest Earth's ever been?

Earth’s hottest periods occurred before humans existed. Those ancient climates would have been like nothing our species has ever seen.

www.climate.gov

Climate changes, it always has. Have we had an impact? Yes probably.

Can we do much about it, probably not.

Will earth adapt, yes it always has.

Seems a bit silly to compare a group of hobbyists who maintain fragile, sometimes rare or endangered animals for enjoyment or propagation to say, large sources of pollution like automotive emissions, oil refineries, 2 cycle engines, etc etc. The impacts are not remotely comparable and perfection is the enemy of the good. Imo the most insidious move polluting groups ever made was pushing the blame and responsibility to individuals rather than taking accountability at a large, corporate level. If we reduce every "pro-environment" argument to "you can't do anything that contributes to climate change whatsoever in your life at any point if you're worried about it" then it's easy to just keep moving the goalposts to anything someone does being a problem. I agree that the Earth will likely be OK. That doesn't mean fisheries, crops or human population will be. Lots of poorer countries rely on natural resources like the sea for sustenance. We should certainly all consume less and be less wasteful, but that doesn't make the data invalid.

 

[The_Paradox]

Hmm, middle of America is worse. Guess it must be all the farms and animals

Nope. That’s oxygen production. The tiny space that is the corn belt scrubs more co2 than all of South America. Hundred year old trees grow slow.