The myth that LED lights last forever

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

If you were in CA that would be a huge consideration. SDGE, for example, charges over $0.80/kWh during the day. PGE and SCE aren’t far behind. Lucky for me, I’m not in on of the big 3 public utility territories, so my average cost is $0.13/kWh - but I have solar anyhow so the extra 2,200kWh annually my 5ft tank is costing me isn’t much anyhow.

I guess it's more about the amount of electricity my tank uses vs what I use for the rest of the house. It's such a small percentage that it doesn't make that much difference. Although the higher electric rate can certainly factor in for some.

 

[Dburr1014]

No one runs LEDs at 100% intensity.

WHAT??

 

[BeanAnimal]

Fun fact - I designed the GPU blocked for the first iteration of the LG 4K smart TV which used 14nm FINFET - opened up a huge other world in leakage power and what it took to solve it compared to traditional transistors.

I honestly never considered that these things have GPUs customized at that level and just kinda blindly assumed they were using off the shelf (or at least industry standard) GPUs with FPGA or ASIC glue.

One thing I will say however, we’ve never seen the coloration of corals that have been coming out of these farms until the last decade. Maybe that’s photography, maybe it’s control of spectrum - maybe we can debate about that too. To each his own.

It is very interesting for sure and it doesn't take much to turn them back to ocean brown

Regardless, for me - putting out the PAR with the spectrum at a fraction of the wattage and heat? Yes please.

That is basically where I ended up. Sure, I loved the MH look and even the nostalgia - but I will gladly tale all of the pros I mentioned (for me) as long as they (the LEDs) grow coral.

Created my own LED system over 15 years ago to test out since no one was making them for retail yet. LED tech has come a very long ways since getting back into the hobby from back then.

Yep - still have a parts box full of lenses, multi-chip samples, etc. Several of us (Shawn Wilson and a few others) worked pretty hard at nailing down a decent spectrum and output... I think that was back in 2010 or 2011.

I lost interest when I realized that by the time you soldered the samples down, the next generation of dies was in the oven... I was also not impressed with the, then efficiency vs MH and wanted to wait for a few more generations of Cree to evolve.

I kept the DE halides until I stumbled on a a few Radions that a local reefer was parting with. I have never looked back even though they were 2nd generation Reef LEDs.

And to that end and the nonsense about LEDs not lasting longer thant T5s or whatever... those were Radion G2 or whatever withe PIR upgrade and ran on my tank since early 2014 until maybe 6 months ago.... That is roughly 9 years. I took par readings when they were put up, never once changed their settings and took par readings when I replaced them early this year (so I could tune/compare to the new fixtures). I am not going to go dig out the par charts for either, but they were essentially the same day 1 as they were day 3,200. The only difference is the generation of Apogee PAR sensor used.

 

[BeanAnimal]

I guess it's more about the amount of electricity my tank uses vs what I use for the rest of the house. It's such a small percentage that it doesn't make that much difference. Although the higher electric rate can certainly factor in for some.

I think it matters a LOT for people on tiered rates. So that extra few kWH may put people into the next tier and be the difference between affordable and not.

 

[buruskeee]

Yep - still have a parts box full of lenses, multi-chip samples, etc. Several of us (Shawn Wilson and a few others) worked pretty hard at nailing down a decent spectrum and output... I think that was back in 2010 or 2011.

Found this gem in my archives lol

Then like a year after this they started making multi LED chip pendants you can buy. I remember searching for different wavelengths to use. If I remember right the 2 dimmer chips there were “UV”.

I wanted zero DIY projects this time around. The hint has come a very long way - auto testers and full wireless control? What???? Where’s the instant blow out SPS tank button at? I just want to sip beer and show off my tank, the journey isn’t as exciting to me anymore lol

 

[thatmanMIKEson]

I am not trying to cause an argument or controversy, basically what I am saying is reef lighting reached it peak with Haldies/T5's and your never going to be able to grow corals better with LEDs. A part from the power saving aspect which is not very much at all over T5's, there is no benefits to using LEDs from a tank health and coral growth perspective. Absolutely none!

They are expensive and don't really last long enough to justify the cost over T5's etc. Just go pick up a used ATI sunpower for 100 bucks and stick in a new set of bulbs and your lighting is sorted and you will amazing success.

Brands like Ecotech bring out Radions as frequently as apple do iPhones. Its a gravy train nothing more.

I agree,but the one thing I like about leds is the spectrum manipulation throughout the day to achieve a different look to the tank at different times during the day, it keeps it interesting.

but yes old school lights just worked no doubt about it!

 

[Dburr1014]

I miss the buzzing / humming noise.

I don't with my tinnitus!

 

[BeanAnimal]

Hey you and o2 and der willie something

LoL - the "der willie" dude - If I remember, I have quite the disdain... he was not as bad as "TheRealFatMan" - but as I remember, I had similar relationships with both.

Man you "scolded" me a few times.

That was a long time ago... I argue much more gently these days.

I had a lot of fights with pro led people back then, as most of them were attributing magic to LEDs that didn't exist regarding heat/ luminous efficiency, etc. and at the same time demonizing MH or T5 with as many or more falsehoods.

I was always argued with as anti LED and I was NOT... the misapplication of facts just drove me insane. People were trying to compare 20w of LED to 500w of Halide, etc. The same BS back then "Well you have to change MH every 2 months or they wont grow coral" etc.

 

[BeanAnimal]

WHAT??

I think a distinction needs to be made between 100% of the emitters actual capability or the 100% of the fixtures maximum settings. The answer (I am sure ) will vary be manufacturer and fixture. I would hope and assume that most reputable manufactures set the USER 100% setting to be well within the design envelope of both the emitter and the thermal solution that they have incorporated.

 

[buruskeee]

Bet you all didn’t know that since it’s DC and there’s brains behind the LEDs, manufacturers purposely degrade the LEDs so you have to upgrade in the future. Can’t do that with AC power! AC to rule forever!

/s

 

[RedoubtReef]

Yeah because neither have incremental improvements…. You’d be the same people complaining that Ecotech or Apple are lazy and greedy because they sell the same product for a decade without spending money on R&D and incorporating new technology to stay relevant.

ok

 

[MnFish1]

WHAT??

I always ran mine at 100%. In fact, it never made sense to pay up xxx $ for light and then use only 30%.

 

[BeanAnimal]

I always ran mine at 100%. In fact, it never made sense to pay up xxx $ for light and then use only 30%.

I think what makes sense is what pleases the eyes and grows corals. I suppose overall output would depend on the fixture, tank and coverage desired. If I had the space and ease of access I would prefer more Mitras at lower lower.

 

[billyocean]

They don't last forever?

 

[buruskeee]

They don't last forever?

Imagine when some people find out the Sun will eventually dim too. lol

 

[Bpb]

Imagine when some people find out the Sun will eventually dim too. lol

Or that eventually all light in the universe will be gone lol

 

[oreo54]

Or that eventually all light in the universe will be gone lol

Or color doesn't really exist..

Do colors exist outside the brain?

Not really. A color is what we call a categorization within our conditioned brain of a particular combination of not just wavelength, but saturation and hue. Color is not really out there. But the different wavelengths of light are really out there.Am I just playing with semantics?

www.woodhamseye.com

Not really. A "color" is what we call a categorization within our conditioned brain of a particular combination of not just wavelength, but saturation and hue. Color is not really "out there." But the different wavelengths of light are really "out there."Am I just playing with semantics?

No. Different cultures with their languages arrange what we call colors differently than English speakers. Russian speakers make the same red /pink and orange / brown distinctions as we would. But they will also make a further distinction between sinii and goluboi, which English speakers would simply call dark and light blue. To Russian speakers, these"colors" are as separate as red and pink, or orange and brown are to us. In Mandarin and Japanese, what we call "green" is considered a type of Blue!

What we see "out there" is not really what is there. It is the projection of our brain's sensory processing onto the world before us.

 

[oreo54]

Or the sky is actually violet

Earth's Skies Are Violet, We Just See Them As Blue

You might know why the sky is blue, but why isn't the sky violet?

www.forbes.com

Ever wonder why some animals see a purple sky?

discoveryplace.org

so if anyone asks "why is the sky blue" now you can just say it's not and really confuse them.

and purple isn't a color.

Scientifically, purple is not a color because there is no beam of pure light that looks purple. There is no light wavelength that corresponds to purple. We see purple because the human eye can't tell what's really going on. Therefore, it is not considered a real color.

Why is purple not identified as a real colour?

Answer (1 of 8): Basically, all colors that are perceivable are real colors, there is no such thing as "not real" color. "Not real" colors are impossible colors, colors that are impossible to be seen most (if not merely) by our eyes such as ultraviolet and infrared. The reason why you can't see ...

www.quora.com

 

[MnFish1]

Or color doesn't really exist..

Do colors exist outside the brain?

Not really. A color is what we call a categorization within our conditioned brain of a particular combination of not just wavelength, but saturation and hue. Color is not really out there. But the different wavelengths of light are really out there.Am I just playing with semantics?

www.woodhamseye.com

Correct - using your logic - nothing exists outside our brain. For example I'm sitting on a chair in the living room - I'm blind - nothing exists. If the skies are violet or not - who cares? The point in reefing (I thought) was using measurements - PAR, etc - to reproduce what's found in nature. In reality when I look at 80% of tanks pictured - I see nothing like the ocean on a sunny day.

 

[A. grandis]

Anyways... here is the guy who invented LEDs for aquariums and his thoughts about lighting... specially metal halides. I'm posting this to end the conversation about that part for the new people here...


and here is the pat about degradation of LEDs:


There is no one currently that could give you the facts of lighting for the aquarium industry better than Tullio, specially the way he does... He is very fair!
So 5 years, if at 100%, should be the time to change most fixtures if you want to keep the light similar to what you had in the beginning.