This hobby is getting even more ridiculous with pricing......

[Brew12]

I don't have to do that.
If you would make a statement as the title in this thread and yet feed the shark with corals of your own that are ridiculous priced you have no right to do so then.
It's a fact this thread is setup just to keep hitting a dead horse, period!!

+1

Unfollowing. Nothing useful left to be said on this topic.

 

[Paul B]

Diesel I am definitely posting more because a week ago I has some massive shoulder surgery and I can't move my left arm. Because of that, I can't do the outdoor things I normally do so I can sit here and type, mostly with one hand.
Before the surgery I winterized the boat, brought home the outdrives after someone put them in my car and took them out. I winterized my sprinkler system and dug up all my vegetables and plants for the winter. Put my snow blower where I can get to it. (even though my neighbors will have to use it for me this winter)
I can't change water in my tank or glue frags that are broken off on my gravel. When I stick my hand in there now, I break something because it is hard, and painful to do things with one hand, but I am getting used to it as this is my fifth rotator cuff surgery. If you lived an active life, you damage your joints. If your joints are fine, maybe you never did anything heavy and spend your time lifting up Supermodels who aren't very heavy.
I also have been doing this longer than anyone here so I have more nonsense to spout. I have been to the places where our charges come from, I knew numerous wholesalers and met some of the names in the hobby.
I know Albert Thiel and Bob Goemans and met Sanjo and a few more talented people. I started the same year as Martin Moe and Dr Schmeck. Yes, I am old and us old guys have been around. Probably too long but we will all be gone soon so the old problems we dealt with in the 70s will again become problems to be dealt with by the younger generation of hobbiests.
Most of these problems seem silly to me as I have heard them from every generation of aquarists. Ich, velvet, dropsy and the heartbreak of psoriasis are of no concern for us old guys but keeps these forums active.
I don't have any of those problems and try to convey my methods but they are perceived as I am either nuts, (likely), lying (could be) or just lucky. (probably)
Diesel I went diving in the Dominican Republic this year. Don't bother, it is terrible. Before that it was the outer Islands of Hawaii. No one wants to dive here with me in New York.

 

[Paul B]

Thanks Diesel. This will pass as it always does and I rarely do any tank maintenance anyway so if I have to wait two months to change any water that is fine as I never change it before three or four months anyway. Some broken corals I would like to glue but I am sure the hermit crabs will pull those pieces out of my sight soon so I won't think about that.
My health is great, it's my wife that has the problems but we are getting old er, so it is what it is and I feel very lucky anyway.
In my life I just about completed my bucket list, got some great Grand Kids and can still come on these silly forums and read about all these supposed "problems"

 

[blkhwkz]

You are clearly wrong here...would you like to read some MAP pricing contracts? Why do you think marine depot and brs has sales that exclude reef octopus, ecotech, etc....and when you go to Macy's why the coupons rarely work on polo, nautical, etc....

Thanks for proving my point. With BRS and Marine Depot both being online only they would have to advertise them at lower prices and that they can't do (because again it is a minimum advertised price.) Although notice there are a number of MAP priced items they are allowed to show on sale. You can still go to an LFS and they can sell it to you for under MAP they just can't advertise it.

 

[tj w]

Keep chatting Paul and Diesel, it's more interesting than this thread[emoji41]

 

[SciGuy2]

I've been a reefer for 26 years and I find my involvement in the hobby decreasing because of the increase of exorbitant pricing, especially the last few years. The thought of losing an expensive specimen has just about taken the fun out of the hobby. I want to enjoy my animals, not be relegated to looking at them as investment properties.

 

[kzaveri19]

This is an amazing thread. Following!!

I am back in the hobby after a few years. Have a six month old setup with just cleaner crew. Looking to buy some good value livestock either locally or online. I am located in Jersey City, across from the Hudson.

I have looked at both VividAquariums and LiveAquaria. I find their prices exorbitant given the size of their frags and livestock. Any other online site that you would recommend? Also, please PM me if you are selling livestock in the NYC or Jersey City area.

Thanks

 

[Paul B]

This is an amazing thread. Following!!

Thanks

Really! I don't even know what it is about.

 

[_Alex_]

Talk to text is your friend haha!!

 

[NHreefguy]

I know I should stay out of this but......

The price of a coral frag has little to do with the input costs. Coral is a cross between livestock breeding and collectibles. Ranchers will pay over $20k for a good breeding steer. Horse breeders will pay $100k+ for one time breeding rights with a Kentucky Derby winner. Why? In the case of the rancher, they see economic advantages to higher quality breeding stock whose calfs will give them profit. This is like reefers who collect coral with the intent to frag and resell. In the horse breeders example, they want to try and raise the most prestigious horses possible. It may not work out, but it does give them bragging rights for at least awhile.
So what should a frag cost? It should cost what someone is willing to pay for it. These aren't commodities, these are collectibles. What is a baseball card or comic worth? They aren't worth nearly as much to me as what others are willing to pay for them. I'm not going to complain if someone pays $100k for a Babe Ruth rookie card. I just won't spend that on one myself. If a coral supplier has a chalice someone is willing to pay $600 for, I don't expect them to sell it to me for $50 instead. I don't care what their costs are or profit margins are for a collectible like coral.

A bull is for breeding. Steer has no testes, just saying [emoji6]

 

[Tahoe61]

When I first started 6 years ago, $100 got me at least 6 nice, multi-colored corals. Presently, $100 is almost the same as the value a dollar in this hobby....worth nothing. You can barely get just 1 coral with $100. Once shipping is factored, you will breach the $100 threshold. Also, corals went from colonies, to snack size, to bite size, to residue. When does the madness stop?

Depends on the coral type. In the 90's I was paying top dollar clams and lps. High end sps had not made scene as of yet, nor had zoanthids, to the extent those coral have today. Once those two coral types became more popular the prices went up and the pieces got smaller, profit driven business, not really too surprising. Famous hobbyist such as Tyree and Fox were still hobbyist, once they put their name to corals and products another profit driven business was created, again not too surprising.

The only logical way to influence the market is to adjust buying practices by hobbyist.

 

[erk]

I still don't get why these threads get started. Things can be cheap if you try. I build everything myself or buy old used equipment. Like I found an old PM skimmer for 100 bucks at a LFS. Or I got a broken vertex zeovit reactor for less than 100 bucks. Convert old tanks into sumps. Build my own stands. I buy the cheap brown corals because give them enough time and they color up real nicely. As for fish, I just buy the cheap ones because they are just as pretty as the expensive ones. Heck, my lawnmower blenny has so much character and cost so little. I like to shop at Petco even though we have really nice LFSs here. Sure things don't look great, but you can typically nurse the fish or coral back to health if you know what you are doing. It's so satisfying nurturing/nursing something to health and seeing it bloom.

In the end, the rising prices of "rare" corals will go up because demand causes it to go up. Like diamonds. Those "fancy" tenius aren't rare. But they are perceived rare and people will pay for it. Krakatoa? Looks like any other paly to me. But people will pay the price for instant satisfaction and for the right to say they own something rare. Like the crazy people that buy the new iPhone the second it comes out. You own any coral long enough, you'll see the colors change over time. I really like gorgonians. Cheap, beautiful, and easy to grow.

 

[becks]

What's your book about? I never knew you wrote a book.

 

[george1381]

Just wait until you can't get wild colonies any more. You think prices are high now, and I don't think that is all that far off. Alot of us fail to realize what the hobby is doing to those beautiful wild reefs. Think about it one day 1 single frag of anything could be truly priceless. JUST SAYING! But yes a I agree the prices are rediculous.

 

[Marquiseo]

It's comical how some want to derail this "thread" (as one offended person stated). Hobbyist can voice their opinions on the matter if they choose to do so. How would you feel if someone derailed your build thread which is a definition of what I said some hobbyists are here for? Either way, thanks for keeping the thread going.

 

[george1381]

But who is worse, The owner of the LFS with tons of over head or the hobbiest selling out of his basement with the same prices?

 

[george1381]

Sorry Marquiseo.

 

[Torqued]

It stops with groups who do frag swaps.....

 

[lolgranny]

Keep chatting Paul and Diesel, it's more interesting than this thread[emoji41]

LOL i was thinking the same thing. Pauls always had some interesting stories on the forums

 

[DereksReef77]

But who is worse, The owner of the LFS with tons of over head or the hobbiest selling out of his basement with the same prices?

What you don't think hobbiest's have huge overhead expenses. We pay the high prices to get the coolest and nicest animals and then what we are supposed to give them away for next to nothing? I don't now how many tanks you have in your basement but I have 7. I'm paying like $400 a month for just electricity in the house. Doesn't factor in water for ro, salt,food,chemicals,test kits,equipment and most importantly my time. Do you feel that our time is not worth anything? As far as the equipment side goes I feel that most of it is overpriced junk that will fail given enough time, as a matter of fact I just pulled out an mp40 from my sump cause it was making noise. Took it apart to clean it and found the whole magnet covered in orange residue...Rust for a $350 powerhead investment. As far as the corals go it is what it is. If you can't afford it hey that's life. Tons of stuff in this world I can't afford or will never be able to afford... Deal with it!!