This hobby is getting even more ridiculous with pricing......

[Rick.45cal]

I personally think it is great that the collectors and exporters figured out that their reefs were worth more than $0.50 a colony! For one thing it will lead them to value their reefs as a natural resource all that much more. The fact that Americans fell in love with frags, well that's kind of our own fault.

 

[Alfrareef]

I buy at the price I want. If I don't like the price, I'll leave it there.
I prefer to buy from LFS so I can have a place to hang out, look at novelties and discuss reefing. Sometimes buy from reefers that practice coral farming. Never bought from standard reefers and never sold a coral or fish. When I have surplus always offer to newbies or LFS.
Recently I've trade KZ for AF just because didn't want to pay their price anymore.

It's the buyer that sets the price, so if you stop throwing money for the best colored coral they lower the price or stop importing them. Of course there's always someone that is buying a Ferrari... it won't be me.

 

[JaimeAdams]

I just want to let everyone know that I made it to the end of this thread!

It comes down to what we are willing to pay. I really like the Home Wrecker, but my economic situation doesn't allow me to buy one. Oh well, that's the way everything is. I can't afford to eat filet mignon all the time or drive a luxury car either but oh well. I make due with my bargain frags and bargain steak and bargain car.

 

[Daniel@R2R]

I just want to let everyone know that I made it to the end of this thread!

It comes down to what we are willing to pay. I really like the Home Wrecker, but my economic situation doesn't allow me to buy one. Oh well, that's the way everything is. I can't afford to eat filet mignon all the time or drive a luxury car either but oh well. I make due with my bargain frags and bargain steak and bargain.

I think that's why they call it the "home wrecker." LOL That is one acro that I'd LOVE to have...but I might be homeless if I do.

 

[rockworm]

I think that's why they call it the "home wrecker." LOL That is one acro that I'd LOVE to have...but I might be homeless if I do.

I so agree. [emoji1] I think I will wait another 10 yrs. Should be able to afford it and my wife by then.

 

[ebushrow]

Let's go with some realism for numbers...Jason Fox I know and have spoken with pretty extensively. He has the high end corals...the 1000.00 per frag corals...but what does he have to do to get those? Well he has had to foster relationships with people in Indonesia for years, then he goes there and goes out with the diver to collect that special coral....before he hits the water he is in at least 5k just with flights and accommodations. Not to mention the years for fostering the relationships....that must be free....then, he pays the diver for his time, then moves it to facility to hold till he is done....he then needs to pay for the US CITIES permits, which are limited and wholesalers need to compete to get....then he has to pay for the facility to bag and ship his coral to the airport....then it goes to LA or wherever (sev rap hundred dollars for each box) ...he then needs to pay customs and fish and wildlife about 500.00 per box in inspection fees....then ship it home to his store (about 1.00/lb of the box weight...generally at least 100.00/box)....and he also needs to hold an importers license to bring them into the country (500.00/yr). Then he has dip, aclimate, and allow to relax and gaclimate to tank life awhile and color up in many cases....by this point he has probably lost 50% of what he brought home.....then he needs to frag it, let it heal and grow....go to frag swaps, MACNA, advertise on forums like this, travel, hotels, magazine articles, ..... So if a box of corals alone runs 100.00 for 20 pieces, shipping is 200.00 to LAX, 500.00 for inspction, 500.00 for importers license, 125.00 for shipping to the store, cost of running the tanks and employees, 1000/month at least...more like 5000.00/ month, travel to Indonesia 5000.00, advertising on r2r 100.00 at least, frag swap tables 150.00 average 10/ year 1500.00, MACNA 3500/year for the booth alone. The list goes on....do you get where the 100 or 1000.00 frag price needs to come from?....there are a ton of other costs associated, but just the overview of costs....NOBODY is getting rich of corals....they are making a living, but nobody is becoming a millionaire from it .... or even close in most cases... think about the numbers if he brings 50 boxes of coral home for the yearly trip to indo....staggering now isn't it...

 

[spllbnd2]

First off, I love how people keep comparing corals and this hobby to that of iPhones which if one is smart could get for free with the right carrier and plan. Heck you could even get a new one every year.

Second thing is this, who ever said that this hobby was cheap? When I got into it long ago, it was not cheap by any means. Has the cost gone up with the times? Yes. Will the cost keep going up with the times and the economy? Yes.

And final thought is this, you yourself makes this hobby what it is, be it reasonable or costly. It is all up to the individual as to which corals and equipment they wish to purchase. I for one believe in a thriving reef aquarium and enjoy watching my reef grow and learn along the way. Do I need those high end corals or equipment to have a flourishing reef? No.

This hobby is what you make of it. Expensive or reasonable. It's up to you.

Cheers,
Alex

 

[ebushrow]

Love it or leave it. That's the spirit!

It's better than whining about it....isn't it?

 

[PurduePete93]

I've noticed the increase in prices after restarting my 90g reef after a 5-6 year break. Was quite shocked at many prices, but agree with the broad market supply/demand pricing economics.

It's just forced me to be much more patient as I've restarted and reminding myself that nothing good happens fast in a reef and that all things grow nicely when you take care of them.

I waited for a sale at my LFS last weekend where they also have Buy 3 get 1 free frags at various price tiers.

I walked out with 12 nice frags for about $100. You can barely see them in the 90g at a distance, but I love looking at them up close. They already seem happy and I trust that they will grow and look gorgeous in the months / years ahead.

 

[jeffrey holloway]

On sale I buy, No sale no buy. I got to check out craiglist.

 

[skinz78]

It's shameful what the prices in the hobby have become.

I no longer purchase online, most all of my new corals come from other hobbiests

 

[Diesel]

I'm still following.....
Although I must say that $700 for a mushroom is ridiculous but you can ask the OP. No kidding

 

[Clayalaleona]

If you asked me about pricing 5ish years ago I would have basically only shopped super cheap and then I took a job working wholesale. You get to see how much the people over seas have started to ask for things(sometimes is boarder line INSANE) but you can't really get upset at them because, point blank, people gotta eat. They see things posted for $3k an inch and only want what is fair. Not every store has things for that price but now even in the bush in indonesia you can get internet.
Sometimes we get too consumed in our hobby to remember that the divers gotta eat, the staff at the collection station has to eat, the exporter has to eat, the importer has to eat, the importer's staff has to eat, the retail store owner and staff have to eat and the respective governments get some nice plates as well. Not only that but businesses open up to make money, not to barely scrape by so someone can get a $5 frag.
Getting perishable goods across the world into your aquarium is NOT CHEAP, keeping it alive and healthy is also not cheap. Add to that the rising price of freight. I'm sure many of you would have a mild stroke if you got a freight bill for 20K... this is a bi-weekly thing at work.
Now, I'm not defending the $2k an inch crowd because I too was a broke college student once but no one ever said this hobby was cheap.

 

[mgoesma]

What about advertising, updates, overhead, contracts with providers.....you conveniently missed those here

I believe I said that first? Did you not read where I said profit does not equal sales-manufacturing cost?

 

[Reivax]

There are two very different subjects here: the coral prices and the equipment prices.

As for the coral, more and more people exchange or sell fragments of their corals, so shop owners make less and less money.
Also, they are animals (the corals, not the shop owners...), and even bred in farms they suffer from nature events. Right now I'm in the Maldives, and almost all acroporas are dead (not kidding) because of El Niño at the beginning of the year. I hear reports it's the same all over Indian ocean and part of asia. So don't expect prices to go any lower any time soon.

As for equipment, well, there are more and more useless stuff and chemicals, and people still buy ! Also, since corals are more expensive, new hobbyists are likely to have more money than before...
I have built a monitoring system that warns me by SMS if power, water level, light level or temperature do not comply to thresholds, it cost me under $80... I'm adding wifi connection and access through a web page for $4 more... Compare that to $400 for similar features devices... But then they have salaries, research, facilities to pay for... And I didn't count my time.

 

[mgoesma]

First off, I love how people keep comparing corals and this hobby to that of iPhones which if one is smart could get for free with the right carrier and plan. Heck you could even get a new one every year.

Second thing is this, who ever said that this hobby was cheap? When I got into it long ago, it was not cheap by any means. Has the cost gone up with the times? Yes. Will the cost keep going up with the times and the economy? Yes.

And final thought is this, you yourself makes this hobby what it is, be it reasonable or costly. It is all up to the individual as to which corals and equipment they wish to purchase. I for one believe in a thriving reef aquarium and enjoy watching my reef grow and learn along the way. Do I need those high end corals or equipment to have a flourishing reef? No.

This hobby is what you make of it. Expensive or reasonable. It's up to you.

Cheers,
Alex

I believe I was the one who brought up a iPhone and I was comparing it to an aquarium controller not coral. It was the best thing I could think of for an example. If you think about it they do a lot of the same things. They have sensors, displays, controle other hardware, and communicate with the owner. Do you have a better example you can quote the numbers for?

 

[trido]

They key word is "HOBBY". Not necessity. Try snow skiing, scuba diving, camping, Mountain climbing,boating and so much more. Any HOBBY is an extra part of your life you do not need and is always expensive. Yes, prices have gone up in the last ten years. Controllers are far better, corals are far prettier, skimmers are more efficient and pumps use less electricity. dont forget about supply and demand. If people would quit paying for ultra uber corals the suppliers would quit selling them. Pay up or move on.

 

[Tsev03]

I'm just getting back into saltwater and from what I see lost of things have gotten cheaper. Fish that use to cost over $30 are now available for under $15. And coral, well 25 years ago we didn't really have much at all available. Now there's many pretty corals the are cheap. We had nothing like what we have now. Now we have many coral that's only $10. May not be high end but still beautiful. 20 years ago we were going good to get a clown and anemone for $50 to $100. Now I have a pair of clowns that I got for $40. We have the most beautiful coral available and yes some of it is extremely expensive but like many other people have said no one has to buy it. And there r lots of good people on local forum that sell nice coral at good prices. If you don't care about having the most popular coral you don't have to buy. If you want it and can afford it then that's fine. There are local people where I live that are willing to give some of theirs to help newbies get started. If you can afford to spend 600 on a high end coral and then get it to multiply you should be able to sell yours for the going rate if that's what you want to do. As for equipment, man it has come a long way. Now we can grow many things that we couldn't 20 years ago. We would not be able to do this if companies had not done much research and made so many advances. Who knows how long it took them to design and test their things. And the money and time they took to prefect the product was a long time coming. Do they deserve to make a some profit off of this, yes I think they do. If they didn't then no one would be trying to improve stuff. I'm very happy to have these improvements. I think the hobby has came a long way. Will I every pay $500 for a frag probably not. But I will pay $500 for a controller that helps me provide a cleaner easier way to control of my tank.

 

[Bbaz123456]

Quit whining!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You do not have to spend a ton of money for frags.
If you are not a collector, don't buy collector's pieces that cost a lot of money.
There are tons and tons of $10-20 very pretty corals available.

 

[mgoesma]

Quit whining!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You do not have to spend a ton of money for frags.
If you are not a collector, don't buy collector's pieces that cost a lot of money.
There are tons and tons of $10-20 very pretty corals available.

I do not know that anyone is whining!!!! We are trying to have a conversation about cost. I wouldn't be in the hobby if I didn't have the money. I agree with the people about coral and livestock. It's supply and demand. If people stopped paying hundreds for livestock people would stop selling it for that amount. After all no sales means negative profit.