urgent suggestions needed: treat ICH in DT or in QT

[Humblefish]

@Humblefish
With 12 fish total (averaging 2"-3" each), should I put them all in one 30-gal QT?
Perhaps two QTs would be good in terms of reducing the chance of bad ammonia spikes?

Thank you again for all your help.

You would need a 75 gal or larger to handle that QT bio-load. Or maybe two 40 breeders.

I think Petco is running their $ per gal sale again.

 

[radicaltour]

You're too helpful.
I'm heading to petco now.
Thanks again.

 

[Humblefish]

You're too helpful.
I'm heading to petco now.
Thanks again.

You're also gonna need the biggest Aquaclear or Bio-wheel HOB they sell.

 

[Confuse]

I hate to say it, but I'm leaning toward velvet on this one. I wanted so bad to just say it's ick. Read this link on how to treat. I suggest doing so quickly. Velvet (Amyloodinium ocellatum) Just follow the directions and you will do just fine. Velvet can act very quickly so losses may happen, but we want to help minimize that by acting with these instructions as soon as possible.

If it helps, even if this is ick and I'm wrong here, this protocol will treat ick as well. Either way you are covered.

I've had issues with adding new inhabitants to my Ich "managed" tank. I've had multiple tangs die from what I think was Ich, while my wrasses were alive and well and never affected. I know that fish can become Ich resistant (e.g. fight it off and live with it), but is velvet the same way? Can fish build a resistance to it? The difference between brook, velvet, and Ich sometimes gets blurred for me and I end up second guessing myself.

 

[melypr1985]

I've had issues with adding new inhabitants to my Ich "managed" tank. I've had multiple tangs die from what I think was Ich, while my wrasses were alive and well and never affected. I know that fish can become Ich resistant (e.g. fight it off and live with it), but is velvet the same way? Can fish build a resistance to it? The difference between brook, velvet, and Ich sometimes gets blurred for me and I end up second guessing myself.

Yes. There have been examples of fish that became temporarily resistant to velvet. EI: it didn't kill them the first go around so they built up resistance to it. The biggest difference is that a fish can live with ick (assuming a lot of things go perfectly right) for years, while a fish won't be able to live very long at all (resistant or not) with velvet. Check out this link so you can see some side-by-side pictures to compare the difference between the three and how they appear on the fish. Fish Disease Index - Pictorial Guide Each have behavioral symptoms as well that help distinguish it from the others.

 

[Empress]

I also got an Achilles Tang from Liveaquaria...delivered on Tuesday. I put him into a "QT" that I have which has some live rock scraps. I changed 1/2 of the QT water (40 gallon breeder size, so 20 gallon change)---i used DT water as replacement into QT and then fresh water into DT (which is 200 gallons plus sump). My tang seems to be ok---no white spots yet. He eats pellet food so far and ill start my frozen shortly. QT currently has a 6-line, a blenny and some snails. Also a small cleaner shrimp, but I haven't seen that thing in a day or so. I hope my specimen doesn't get this ich, but that's the whole reason for a QT, right? I plan on a 3 week QT period with water changes every other day. Do you guys add any 'medication' into QT even if nothing looks bad?

Remove the snails, rocks, and shrimp (if you still have it). Dose the tank with Prazipro. Follow the dosage on the bottle. Wait about 2 or 3 days, then do a water change. On the 5 or 7th after the first day (Prazi), dose it again. Wait another 2 or 3 days and do another water change. This process will eliminate any flukes/worms.

Then be patient and wait. If you see something wrong, let us know.

Also, keep an eye on ammonia and crank up the oxygen.

 

[radicaltour]

for an update: the Achilles Tang didn't make it but the Majestic Angel is recovering nicely in the copper-medicated QT.
With a busy work schedule, I've been holding off on moving the other 12 fish from the DT to a QT.
They look healthy for the past few days and I would hate to lower their chance of survival due to lack of QT handling experience.

Is this wishful thinking on my part?
Is it like 90% chance I'll have a few more fish joining the Tang soon?
Has anyone encountered ich/velvet on one fish and the rest of their livestock survived?

 

[melypr1985]

Is this wishful thinking on my part?
Is it like 90% chance I'll have a few more fish joining the Tang soon?
Has anyone encountered ich/velvet on one fish and the rest of their livestock survived?

Yes.
Yes.
On a certain level yes again. With ich it's possible to run an ick-management tank for years assuming everything goes right the whole time. With velvet, it's usually one or two that can survive to infect the new fish that are added, but you will lose the majority of the tank 97% of the time.

If you want to be sure you can add new fish to the tank without the risk of them being infected and dying, then going fallow is the best route. If you want the piece of mind that your fish don't have a ticking time-bomb feeding off of them, then going fallow is the way to go.

 

[radicaltour]

The Angel has stopped eating for the past two days. Garlic doesn't work either.
His mouth seems to be open all the time and so I don't know if that's normal or locked jaw.

Any suggestions?
Thank you.

 

[melypr1985]

The Angel has stopped eating for the past two days. Garlic doesn't work either.
His mouth seems to be open all the time and so I don't know if that's normal or locked jaw.

Any suggestions?
Thank you.

Picture of the angel?

 

[radicaltour]

I'll get some pics in the morning. Thanks.

 

[melypr1985]

I'll get some pics in the morning. Thanks.

while you are at it... pay close attention to her behavior. The usual questions there... breathing, flashing, scratching, hiding, ect ect. We want to make sure something else we haven't seen on them yet isn't causing this. The more info the better

 

[radicaltour]

The Angel didn't make it this morning.
Last night he was looking fine in terms of having full control of body while swimming around. I've done 2 freshwater dips and 1 formalin dip in the past 4 days.
He was in a new 30-gal tank with 3ml of cupremine (every 2 days as suggested on the bottle).

Can anyone spot anything in these photos?

 

[Humblefish]

@radicaltour His mouth being all extended like that is very odd. Was he like that the entire time you had him? If not, when did it start?

 

[radicaltour]

His mouth was always extended like that. I remember laughing a few times thinking, "he looks like a boxer that wants to get in the ring with everyone".
In the photos above, I noticed the area around the mouth looks dented/damaged.
That is new.

 

[Humblefish]

His mouth was always extended like that. I remember laughing a few times thinking, "he looks like a boxer that wants to get in the ring with everyone".
In the photos above, I noticed the area around the mouth looks dented/damaged.
That is new.

Did he ever eat? Or was the issue with his mouth preventing it?

I wonder if he had a tumor or some other kind of growth (like Lympho) inside his mouth.

 

[radicaltour]

I had him for 3 weeks before this whole thing started with the introduction of the Achilles.
During that time he ate everything I threw in the tank.
He stopped eating a couple of days ago after the freshwater and formalin dip.
He was in the 30-gal QT by himself with an aqueon-75 HOB filter, eheim heater and a small pump to agitate the surface.

 

[Humblefish]

He stopped eating a couple of days ago after the freshwater and formalin dip.

This is purely anecdotal, as I know people who successfully use formalin on every fish before they go into the DT. However for me, it's a chemical of last resort. In addition to being a known carcinogen, IME some fish just can't seem to handle being exposed to it. I'm not saying formalin is what killed your angel; it's just a possible contributing factor to consider based on my experience.

 

[radicaltour]

thank you for all the information you've given me and the forum. I've learned a lot throughout this process and at least I now have a QT set up.