Why are there so many sick fish?????

[Lionfish Lair]

@Lionfish Lair Im not on a witch hunt to bash local fish stores. It seems like @melypr1985 and @seth&angelle are doing the best they can. Seriously stating that something can't be done is a little far fetched. I know that Im not a reef squad member and Im just a regular joe nobody but you are implying that any store that states they qt are automatically lying.

Did I say anything at all about accusing them of lying? Holy Moly, take it down a notch. If a store says they QT, then you need to look in the back and lay eyes on what kind of set up they have, to figure out your next move. Everyone's idea of QT is different. If you don't see individual tanks, then it's not a "proper" QT and you need to do a full one at home. If you look in and there's individual tanks and you trust them and the fish look good, you may feel well enough about them to do an abbreviated. An example is Diver's Den. They do an abbreviated QT, but they also say you need to do one at home because they systems are not set up for a proper QT. A proper QT is a complete one that doesn't need to be extended or repeated.

@Lionfish Lair I meant no disrespect as I like to have respectful healthy discussions regarding the future of our hobby. I understand that quarantined fish at the lfs level is a hard problem to mitigate but If thats what it takes for consumers to receive at least healthier fish that have a better chance to survive in the end customers quarantine procedures I feel thats what needs to happen.

I'm going to be honest. If respectful healthy discussions is what you want to be involved in, your responses need to reflect these traits. You came out of the gate swinging for no reason. Mentioning the ReefSquad thing was just silly. Maybe get to know me before you judge me so negatively.

 

[11cmortarman]

Who is swinging for the fences you stated that an LFS can't properly do a quarantine because you suspected that all of them are constantly adding fish to those systems but I know that there are people out there that do it right like seth&angelle. If you want people to go around a peek around someones store and snoop around in the back when they say they qt than you are implying that they are lying. I would consider you an expert and if you took the whole reef squad thing wrong then it was taking out of context. I was simply stating that I am a regular average customer that feels that it can be done. Think what you want but your not going to affect my response by saying that I was juvenile..well I see you changed it to silly. Im grown and don't have to justify my thoughts to your liking. And don't feel like I lashed out at all. Last I checked this was a forum and the point of it is to get different perspectives of different topics. Or should every conversation just stop with your expertise.

 

[tcarter1936]

Just my 2 cents but in my experience any lfs can do better but it does cost time and money to qt.that said it would only stand to reason th as that the qt'd fish would have to cost more and with a large number of people running systems that there wallets can't support they just won't buy more expensive fish. I don't own a store and haven't worked at one either. But I have friends burdened with the task of not only trying to pay bills but to get people in the door.
Maybe people should talk with the local stores and show that they are willing to pay more for qt'd fish. The down side is what some people have available to them as I realize I'm fortunate to live in Florida and have some options. Aqian just my business minded opinion.

 

[Empress]

The lfs in my area offers a 30 day QT with Copper at $1 per small fish a day with no more than 3 fish in a tank. And if a secondary infection or whatnot pops up, she'll take care of that too (for a fee). You can check up on your fish everyday if you want and even feed them yourself. This is an awesome way for people that don't have enough time or space in their home for qt.

 

[Jahalu]

Interesting discussion. I think as hobbyists, we should dare to dream bigger. We all need to support and contribute to captive breeding research. We can push this field if we choose to. All this talk of lfs QT will be obsolete when tanks are filled with young, stress-free specimens.

 

[Jahalu]

The lfs in my area offers a 30 day QT with Copper at $1 per small fish a day with no more than 3 fish in a tank. And if a secondary infection or whatnot pops up, she'll take care of that too (for a fee). You can check up on your fish everyday if you want and even feed them yourself. This is an awesome way for people that don't have enough time or space in their home for qt.

Just curious- if the fish dies while in this QT, do they reimburse you for the fish or do you still pay?

 

[Pagerone]

Seems like thats all we read on here what is happening?
I started my tank almost 2 years ago and loved it ..then
I go and buy one little pretty fish and bring him home and didnt have a QT tank well just in a bout 3 days I lost every fish I had ...
people buy sick fish I have and I have lost them also and thats sad ..but can the people selling the fish Qt them before shipping to our homes?
These fish are not cheap alot of them ..
I have to save up for mine lol so I really hate buying sick fish ...
Just seems like something could be do e for these fish so
You get them healthy

I agree, I think fish are put on a back burner in pet stores and even reef shops there has to be more laws for the pet shop owners selling fish to make sure they properly treat sick fish and how they take care of them before they sell them because the out come is us hobbiest loose all are live stock ,I worry about buying a new fish for this reason I don't want to risk loosing my other fish witch are pets to me not just some animal that can be replaced and thrown away, it's wrong

 

[Breva1100]

After loosing a tank full of Fish to velvet, even with treatment, I am going to let the tank set fallow for 2.5 months. That means no new coral or anything. In that time I am going to finish treating the DT and set up a QT. It is a haste but part of the proccess.

 

[sil40sx]

Didn't you guys hear about the soon to be "Humble Fish Aquatics", that's going to sell guaranteed QT'd fish?

Ahem, @Humblefish :wink:

 

[bsealevel]

Interesting discussion. I own a fish store and I try my hardest to sell quality fish. With that said, I cannot quarantine every fish that comes in for 30 days and keep prices competitive. Utility costs alone for the systems we have are around 900 per month and that does not include cost of salt and ro water and medications. If we doubled it, it would affect prices greatly. But I will say that we will not sell any fish or any fish that has been exposed to a sick fish. The tank will go offline and all immediately affected fish will go into quarantine. Bottom line though, no one will pay for the cost of the fish after they have all been quarantined. Also, I see a lot of people speaking about the lfs, and not one that mention the online vendors that hurt lfs so bad that don't quarantine either.

 

[helen ann]

Didn't you guys hear about the soon to be "Humble Fish Aquatics", that's going to sell guaranteed QT'd fish?

Ahem, @Humblefish :wink:

Yep and the first shipment of @Humblefish aquatics goes out to me!!!

 

[omykiss001]

Interesting discussion. I think as hobbyists, we should dare to dream bigger. We all need to support and contribute to captive breeding research. We can push this field if we choose to. All this talk of lfs QT will be obsolete when tanks are filled with young, stress-free specimens.

Absolutely agree. However I think those of us on this forum are still in the minority. I love the mandarins and when I was getting back into the hobby I was reading about captive bred one and thought that was a great milestone especially for a fish that has a poor track record in newer tanks when taken from the wild. When I was set back up come to find out pretty much no one offers the captive bred guys as the wild one are so much cheaper they can't make any money from it and so they are pretty much impossible to find at least from what I have been able to determine by looking. I think this just underscores why Walmart tends to win even if in the long run it's not good for the local community as if they fold there are no local guys left. Most want it cheap even if that means lower quality of goods, again look at Walmart most of what they sell is garbage that has to be replaced in a year or less. As more and more of the captive bred yellow tangs come to market it will be interesting to see if consumers will stomach the additional cost or if these too will go the way of the captive bred mandarins.

I feel fortunate that the LFS I deal with has a QT system and they only place an order once a week. All fish are given a fresh water dip on arrival then held in the QT system for 7 days, then moved to display assuming no one is showing signs of disease. They are honest about how they do it and are happy to show you the system in the back. I was just curious what it looked like and the guy who runs the saltwater portion is a geek like us to loves to show off the systems and how they work. This store is also great in that they will hold a fish for up to an additional week in the system for you and they have never asked me to put a deposit on a single fish to do this. I have had a good track record from them, but I know they can't afford to QT like I do and I know what I'm getting, which is still worlds better that most.

Unless the majority of consumers are willing to pay 3X-5X the cost per fish we are now there is no drive to change at the retail level as they have to make some money or they fold. I don't ever expect anyone to be in business for a loss and overhead is already high compared to say online vendors. They already eat the cost for most DOA livestock that never makes it to the retail display. All I ever ask is they are honest and do the best they can with what they can that still allows them to turn a reasonable profit.

 

[Empress]

Just curious- if the fish dies while in this QT, do they reimburse you for the fish or do you still pay?

It all depends on your fish keeper. Talk to him/her to get details.

 

[DeniseAndy]

I think that unfortunately money runs this on both sides. Small LFS cannot compete with online prices if they try to qt everything. Not feasible. Now that said, as hobbyists, we want things cheaper, not more expensive. I do not want to be mean or put people down, but I have seen too many hobbyists just want to save a buck and order through some Joe Smoe who has a vendor license so they can get cheap fish. They do not learn where those fish came from or how. Then if they die, they figure they only spent this much, so no biggie I will try again.

We as hobbyists need to drive the wholesalers and the fish suppliers to get healthy fish. This is why we are getting all the flack from others about the hobby. We need to stop buying from those that sell ill-gotten fish. We need to try to find ways to help the captive bred program and support the efforts of suppliers to catch and ship fish properly.

I try my best to follow these rules. Am I perfect, no. Have I bought a fish that I should have turned away from, yes. I have thought to myself, I have a better chance than most to successfully keep this poor fish. Then, I think, well, the fish store sold it, so they will now just get more. Dooough! However, now that I have been doing this for so long and my fish are quite old, I really worry about buying more. I qt everything, but I still worry. I happily pay 3-5x as much for a captive bred if available. Not everyone can do that or is willing to.

I do not think the solution is with LFS. I think it is much further up and down the chain than that. It is consumerism at its best. We live in a throw away society and we need to stop and think before we act.

Done

 

[Nemguy123]

I think that unfortunately money runs this on both sides. Small LFS cannot compete with online prices if they try to qt everything. Not feasible. Now that said, as hobbyists, we want things cheaper, not more expensive. I do not want to be mean or put people down, but I have seen too many hobbyists just want to save a buck and order through some Joe Smoe who has a vendor license so they can get cheap fish. They do not learn where those fish came from or how. Then if they die, they figure they only spent this much, so no biggie I will try again.

We as hobbyists need to drive the wholesalers and the fish suppliers to get healthy fish. This is why we are getting all the flack from others about the hobby. We need to stop buying from those that sell ill-gotten fish. We need to try to find ways to help the captive bred program and support the efforts of suppliers to catch and ship fish properly.

I try my best to follow these rules. Am I perfect, no. Have I bought a fish that I should have turned away from, yes. I have thought to myself, I have a better chance than most to successfully keep this poor fish. Then, I think, well, the fish store sold it, so they will now just get more. Dooough! However, now that I have been doing this for so long and my fish are quite old, I really worry about buying more. I qt everything, but I still worry. I happily pay 3-5x as much for a captive bred if available. Not everyone can do that or is willing to.

I do not think the solution is with LFS. I think it is much further up and down the chain than that. It is consumerism at its best. We live in a throw away society and we need to stop and think before we act.

Done

Well said

 

[Humblefish]

All this talk of lfs QT will be obsolete when tanks are filled with young, stress-free specimens.

A good first step would be if wholesalers (and then LFS) would isolate their captive bred fish from the wild caught ones. This isn't being done with ORA clownfish, and they are now just as likely to have Brooklynella as wild caught clowns.

Didn't you guys hear about the soon to be "Humble Fish Aquatics", that's going to sell guaranteed QT'd fish?

"Soon" is a relative term.

 

[sil40sx]

Let's rephrase it to "near future" instead? Hehe

 

[Amps Reef Life]

Velvet is also running rampant right now, from the wholesalers to the LFS. This devastating disease used to be not so frequently encountered.

Velvet is insane right now. Iv'e been in the hobby for over two years and haven't had a hard time with it but over the past 2 months most of the fish I have bought have had Velvet. Iv'e never seen it this often before. I'm not sure what's going on but its like FLU season for humans.

 

[Debramb]

My local LFS has the dates fish are added to tank, not sure of qt protocol, but will inquire. At least you can judge visual and days/months in store.

 

[Luis Spinola]

Two years ago, my son and I started our fowlr tank, we did everything according to the book(s) and after 4-5 months we had our first fish. We began to get some more and they were all happy; we only had 5 or six. One day I saw a beautiful coral beauty angel which seemed healthy and took it home, but did not have a QT and our nightmares started! Ich! I know it was our big mistake and we regret it, we hate to lose fish, we love them! We lost all our fish, even after making all the efforts to save them (set up a hospital tank, feeding, meds, super care, etc). We did not get any help from the lfs store where we bought the angel. We have read a lot and it seems a great percentage of marine fish get sick due to many reasons. We are guilty of not having a QT, but if we have had enough advice from the lfs's more people wouldn't have sick fish. I think many lfs just want to sell the fish and are not interested in where they will live. They do not feel responsible for them after they leave the store, and many times they are not honest about the fish they sell. I think that the lack of experience and advice are the reasons why many, many people have fish dying and leave the hobby. Now, we only have one beautiful rabbit face and one sand goby, and the tank has more corals than fish. I think corals are less difficult to maintain...well, in my opinion...Good luck!