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This site is awesome. Lots of pictures and their ID.
http://planktonnet.awi.de/index.php
http://planktonnet.awi.de/index.php
Will it truly ever go away? Dinoflagellates vs. Metronidazole
- Thread starter jason2459
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Need to get an updated update list. But I think last night was day 16. I'm noticing no cyano in my tank and extremely extremely small amount of a trace of bubbles on the rocks at the very end of the day. I have to look hard.
I've continued to change filter socks twice a day. Skimmer still online and ATS. Last night I did blow off all surfaces. Mainly to make sure I got a good sample to sample from in the filter sock.
There's still active dinos running around. I've found at least two different kinds. Possibly more but need to ID them as separate or just part of the life cycle. I posted a good article above about their life cycle. Different dinos can reproduce in different ways. It's pretty fascinating.
I'm still working on getting positive IDs on the exact types of dinos I have and getting closer. This also can determine what kind of toxins they can release. Right now it looks like I'm safe along with my tank inhabitants. Well, as long as I don't eat my own fish that is. Looks like the type o toxin released by potentially both kinds of dinos I have causes either Paralytic shellfish poisoning (PSP) or DSP if ingested.
So, from a single drop sucked out of the filter sock last night I got a great view of the smallest dino I've found so far and I'm sure I can get an ID now. Just need the time to research it.
I've continued to change filter socks twice a day. Skimmer still online and ATS. Last night I did blow off all surfaces. Mainly to make sure I got a good sample to sample from in the filter sock.
There's still active dinos running around. I've found at least two different kinds. Possibly more but need to ID them as separate or just part of the life cycle. I posted a good article above about their life cycle. Different dinos can reproduce in different ways. It's pretty fascinating.
I'm still working on getting positive IDs on the exact types of dinos I have and getting closer. This also can determine what kind of toxins they can release. Right now it looks like I'm safe along with my tank inhabitants. Well, as long as I don't eat my own fish that is. Looks like the type o toxin released by potentially both kinds of dinos I have causes either Paralytic shellfish poisoning (PSP) or DSP if ingested.
So, from a single drop sucked out of the filter sock last night I got a great view of the smallest dino I've found so far and I'm sure I can get an ID now. Just need the time to research it.
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Run down Update
Prep
Day 1 (Night of June 28th)
BUT the fact that with this treatment I saw very quick results on even day 3 and dramatic reaults with in 2 weeks I think says something and potential. What I did and have seen several times before would typically have seen the before metro outbreak look for well over a month to several months. I could very easily be doing something thats not allowing full erradication but will keep monitoring for a full 30 days(and longer really) keep taking samples to look under the microscope to see if theres any more changes.
Prep
- Dumped in enough food to cause a massive outbreak of cyano and dinos that would normally last at least 1-2 months
- Turned off Automatic Water Changes
- Took out GAC (would have taken out any GFO too if I had any)
- No ozone (same would apply to UV or dosing H2O2)
- Cut carbon dosing in half
- Tuned down the skimmer but kept it aerating the water
- Kept ATS online
- Kept ATO online
- Kept feeding as normal (a lot)
Day 1 (Night of June 28th)
- 5 grams Metroplex dosed
- (This works out to around 250mg per 10 gallons per day.)
- 5 grams Metroplex dosed
- 5 grams (20 pills) Aquazole dosed
- sample under microscope shows active peridinium dinos
- Added filter sock.(100 micron felt. 4" ring by 14" length)
- Blew of all surfaces
- Changed sock
- Brought skimmer back online
- 5 grams Aquazole dosed
- Changing filter sock 3 times per day
- Blowing off all surfaces in the evening
- Minor grow back of visual dinos
- extremely minor to no growth back of cyano
- 5 grams Aquazole dosed
- 5 grams Aquazole dosed.
- Very minor growth again.
- Changing out 100 micron felt sock 3x per day still.
- Blowing off all surfaces at night
- Very minor growth again.
- Changing out 100 micron felt sock 3x per day still.
- Blowing off all surfaces at night
- Samples show no recognizable or moving peridinium dinos. A lot more much smaller flagelet phytoplankton of some kind.
- No dosing done
- 5 grams Metroplex dosed
- No blowing off of surfaces done
- Skimmer still online
- Filter sock changed out twice
- Very minor amounts of visual dino growth on rocks
- 5 grams Metroplex dosed
- No blowing off of surfaces done
- Skimmer still online
- Filter sock changed out twice
- Extremly minor amounts of visual dino growth on rocks
- No real change to nitrates or phosphates through out. Possible slight increase in PO4 tontoni
- I didn't blow anything off again
- Changed filter socks twice today
- Found some mobile but slight off looking peridinium dinos
- Cleaned off ATS where the dinos were found
- Dosed 5 grams MetroPlex (dose 8 fyi)
- Dosed 5 grams MetroPlex (dose 9)
- Changed filter socks twice
- No blowing off surfaces
- Dosed 5 grams MetroPlex (last dose #10)
- Changed Filter socks twice
- No blowing off surfaces
- No noticeable difference in dino bubbles (extremely small amount)
- Some very minor cyano growth
- I was going to start blowing off surfaces today but failed to get the time
- Filter sock lasted all day from 7am to the time I changed it sometime after 11pm and wasn't overflowing. First time its lasted more then 12 hours with out overflowing.
- Nothing else has changed and no more dosing
- The tiny amount of cyano growth noticed yesterday didn't get any larger or spread anywhere else
- Noticed a very tiny amounts of dino bubbles.
- a LOT less of the main dino's I see when I have a dino explosion. Those that I do see are now almost all seem to be effected in some way.
- What I think are encysted cells I think I've seen a couple that have been penetrated to at least the point that bacteria is attacking the insides.
- The other smaller type of flagellate I have seems unaffected so far (I think it's a type of Amphidinium but also believe it to be harmles)
- No change in equipment used or maintenance
- Filter sock changed twice a day
- Reduced visual cyano and dinos to the point of having to look extremely hard for them.
- No visual cyano seen anywhere
- Extremely small amounts of bubbles indicating possible dinos still linguring but have to look very hard for them
- Blew off all surfaces and changed filter sock 3 times
- Took sample from filter sock to look under microscope again
- There is still some active larger dinos and smaller dinos (possibly Amphidinium)
- Possbly other dinos or stages of maturity. Researching this
- Positively removed peridinium as a possible ID for the larger dino. Possibly Alexandrium.
BUT the fact that with this treatment I saw very quick results on even day 3 and dramatic reaults with in 2 weeks I think says something and potential. What I did and have seen several times before would typically have seen the before metro outbreak look for well over a month to several months. I could very easily be doing something thats not allowing full erradication but will keep monitoring for a full 30 days(and longer really) keep taking samples to look under the microscope to see if theres any more changes.
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I would possibly even suggest turning off an ATS, macro fuge, algae reactors or any kind of algae growth areas. The ATS became an absolute playground and refuge for my dinos for this. Its the one place I knew to find any active ones though their count became a lot less there as well.
I would do that and not run any GAC, Ozone, UV, H2O2, or any other kind of oxidizing agents or methods.
I would turn down the skimmer so its not removing any water that needs replenished with fresh saltwater but keeps aerating the water.
I would stop water changes and dosing of at least iron products even removing GFO. And limit dosing to just Ca, Mg, and alk if required.
Cut down on carbon dosing if doing so or even stop all together.
Basically anything that will reduce or remove the metronidazole or feed or help phototrophs or heterotrophs as dinos could be either depending on the type.
I would have added the filter socks from the very beginning. But not blown off surfaces daily or at the beginning as I saw an increased amount of encysted dinos. This could drive them under the substrate where medication may not be as effective. Maybe blow of surfaces 2-3 times a week. Just a thought on that. Toxins may be a concern and not blowing off the rocks daily may actually help reduce that chance so the dino doesn't feel as stressed or threatened? Don't know.
Otherwise 10 days was probably a good idea and didn't see or haven't seen yet any major negative reactions.
I would do that and not run any GAC, Ozone, UV, H2O2, or any other kind of oxidizing agents or methods.
I would turn down the skimmer so its not removing any water that needs replenished with fresh saltwater but keeps aerating the water.
I would stop water changes and dosing of at least iron products even removing GFO. And limit dosing to just Ca, Mg, and alk if required.
Cut down on carbon dosing if doing so or even stop all together.
Basically anything that will reduce or remove the metronidazole or feed or help phototrophs or heterotrophs as dinos could be either depending on the type.
I would have added the filter socks from the very beginning. But not blown off surfaces daily or at the beginning as I saw an increased amount of encysted dinos. This could drive them under the substrate where medication may not be as effective. Maybe blow of surfaces 2-3 times a week. Just a thought on that. Toxins may be a concern and not blowing off the rocks daily may actually help reduce that chance so the dino doesn't feel as stressed or threatened? Don't know.
Otherwise 10 days was probably a good idea and didn't see or haven't seen yet any major negative reactions.
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I would possibly even suggest turning off an ATS, macro fuge, algae reactors or any kind of algae growth areas. The ATS became an absolute playground and refuge for my dinos for this. Its the one place I knew to find any active ones though their count became a lot less there as well.
I would do that and not run any GAC, Ozone, UV, H2O2, or any other kind of oxidizing agents or methods.
I would turn down the skimmer so its not removing any water that needs replenished with fresh saltwater but keeps aerating the water.
I would stop water changes and dosing of at least iron products even removing GFO. And limit dosing to just Ca, Mg, and alk if required.
Cut down on carbon dosing if doing so or even stop all together.
Basically anything that will reduce or remove the metronidazole or feed or help phototrophs or heterotrophs as dinos could be either depending on the type.
I would have added the filter socks from the very beginning. But not blown off surfaces daily or at the beginning as I saw an increased amount of encysted dinos. This could drive them under the substrate where medication may not be as effective. Maybe blow of surfaces 2-3 times a week. Just a thought on that. Toxins may be a concern and not blowing off the rocks daily may actually help reduce that chance so the dino doesn't feel as stressed or threatened? Don't know.
Otherwise 10 days was probably a good idea and didn't see or haven't seen yet any major negative reactions.
I would do that and not run any GAC, Ozone, UV, H2O2, or any other kind of oxidizing agents or methods.
I would turn down the skimmer so its not removing any water that needs replenished with fresh saltwater but keeps aerating the water.
I would stop water changes and dosing of at least iron products even removing GFO. And limit dosing to just Ca, Mg, and alk if required.
Cut down on carbon dosing if doing so or even stop all together.
Basically anything that will reduce or remove the metronidazole or feed or help phototrophs or heterotrophs as dinos could be either depending on the type.
I would have added the filter socks from the very beginning. But not blown off surfaces daily or at the beginning as I saw an increased amount of encysted dinos. This could drive them under the substrate where medication may not be as effective. Maybe blow of surfaces 2-3 times a week. Just a thought on that. Toxins may be a concern and not blowing off the rocks daily may actually help reduce that chance so the dino doesn't feel as stressed or threatened? Don't know.
Otherwise 10 days was probably a good idea and didn't see or haven't seen yet any major negative reactions.
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Day 18 (July 16th)
Lets see what happens.
- Blew off all surfaces
- Changed filter socks 3 times
- Brought Ozone Back online
- Added GAC at skimmer outlet for ozone
- Brought AWC back online
Lets see what happens.
Had to share
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Day 26 (July 24th)
Took a sample of GHA from ATS that I was sure I would find both the larger and smaller types of dinoflagelets I've been monitoring through out this thread.
I was surprised to find Zero of the larger armored type. I did find a couple but not many of the smaller ones.
The smaller type
Took a sample of GHA from ATS that I was sure I would find both the larger and smaller types of dinoflagelets I've been monitoring through out this thread.
I was surprised to find Zero of the larger armored type. I did find a couple but not many of the smaller ones.
The smaller type
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