WYSIWYMG - What You See Is What You Might Get

[Cuong L]

For some that haven't purchased fresh frag sps (fresh frag meaning, obtained in the wild, cut and shipped immediately), there is a high chance that they will not make it through shipping or to water adjustments. If you feel that it is worth the risk to obtain the piece, then go for it. I did. I just hope it survives.

If you do not plan to take the risk and you want to ensure that the frag is healthy and fully healed, check for some growth of the actual sps encrusting over the glue or onto the frag plug. Another important thing to look out for is if there are pest attached, such as aptasia. If you see any, make sure you cut it out. Also, always use coral dip before you put it in your tank. Good luck and enjoy the hobby!

Please do not post any negative comments. This is not a complain thread. I knew exactly what I was risking when I purchased this frag and was willing to take the risk for this piece for the price that I paid.

Here is what I bought

Here is what I got

 

[Lateral72]

This is a big issue (IMO) with Zoas and why it seems all the "rare" morphs melt away. Ever watch a tiny 1/8" spec of Zoa that costs $100 melt? Pretty disheartening, especially for the newbies in the hobby.

Fresh cut frags (SPS, LPS, Softies, Zoas, etc.) don't like to be shipped, even a week is not enough time to "heal".

 

[drainbamage]

it's all about the vendor and what you're getting- some places you get great deals but take a bigger risk on stuff doing good or even living, other places you pay more for something that's a much smaller risk. Think someone once said "you get what you pay for" :tongue:

 

[meisen]

I disagree with the "you get what you pay for" concept, both in practice and in theory. If you purchase corals from someone they should be viable, healthy frags to the best of the seller's ability, period, whether you paid $5 or $50 for them.

I have purchased expensive frags and corals from vendors that were total garbage and gotten fantastic frags from private hobbyists that shared at very reasonable prices. And the converse as well. Its easier of course to stomach a dead frag when it costs almost nothing but nevertheless not what should be expected.

The truth of it is somewhere in between I believe. Research the reputation of whom you are purchasing from and seek out those who have been in the hobby long-term. Those that have a reputation worth preserving will usually yield the greatest quality even if worst-case, you have to remind them of this. Sure super colored, healthy frags likley won't be free but I think in general people can do better than what your post above shows.

 

[Ian]

How'd it look before you dipped it?

Coral dip will do that to sps.....

 

[Troylee]

Agreed Ian.... I bought this awesome wild colony one time and brought it home dipped it and the flesh peeled right off!!!! I was like oh well thought it was dead stuck it in the frag tank and the next day I saw small polyps after 2 more dips and placing it in my display it's one of the baddest pieces I got!!!!! Almost tossed the thing thou lol.... Dips are harsh and strip sps sometimes so bad they look dead... A vendor won't dip them for that reason alone he can't sell what your showing us but the first piece will....fwiw.... No one is gonna dip there stuff to sit on it for 6 months to
Color up and re sell unless there into aqua culture.... Just my 2

 

[Jcr's Reef]

it's all about the vendor and what you're getting- some places you get great deals but take a bigger risk on stuff doing good or even living, other places you pay more for something that's a much smaller risk. Think someone once said "you get what you pay for" :tongue:

I just have to get this off my chest. This is pretty much a false statement bc anybody can put any kind of price tag they want to on stuff. I just paid quiet a bit for a nice frag pack from a well respected vendor here on R2R (thought it was a steal). Couldn't have been more disappointed and wonder why people talk this vendor up so much (it worked in his favor though). It was my first and will be my last experience with them. Out of the package deal of 13 different kinds of zoa's, only 1 polyp looked okay and actually opened up very quickly once being placed in my frag tank. I pretty much knew the rest were goners when I opened up the shipping box. Some of the stalks were shriveled, some had tissue coming off of them, and some were covered in algae. Sad part is, I waited 3 weeks for them to heal :squigglemouth:. Needless to say, only 1 polyp out of the whole deal opened for me. What an expensive Polyp! :neutral: No more money ever being spent there again!

 

[Stray32]

I recognize the photo, and I will just say that everything I have purchased from that vendor has arrived very healthy and was exactly as it was in the photo. And considering what I think you paid for it... it wasn't a huge loss. Please forgive me if I am incorrect about the assumption of your price.

I have killed more than one frag with coral dip... it just happens sometimes.

 

[drainbamage]

I disagree with the "you get what you pay for" concept, both in practice and in theory. If you purchase corals from someone they should be viable, healthy frags to the best of the seller's ability, period, whether you paid $5 or $50 for them.

Not sure about you- but I've often picked up 'bargain bin' corals that are not in great shape for the express reason that they're cheap, and I believe I can get them better. If you only want to purchase viable healthy pieces- don't buy those that are higher risk, right? I'm sorry, but there will always be a market for those who like the cheapest they can buy, and that's going to mean less-than ideal in terms of health, size, etc. Obviously really small frags are going to have a rougher time than larger pieces in most situations- but I'd rather pay for a small frag that I can afford than buy a big colony. That's my problem for choosing to go that way. I consider this exactly a "get what you pay for' arrangement. There's a vendor who sells at extremely good prices, but not all the pieces will come in viable- I've dealt with him several time, because the 70~80 percent of the pieces that survive are well worth the money spent IMO. But I go into it knowing that I'll lose some- that's just the way it is. If you don't want to take that risk, then obviously it would be a bad way to purchase.

I just have to get this off my chest. This is pretty much a false statement bc anybody can put any kind of price tag they want to on stuff. I just paid quiet a bit for a nice frag pack from a well respected vendor here on R2R (thought it was a steal). Couldn't have been more disappointed and wonder why people talk this vendor up so much (it worked in his favor though). It was my first and will be my last experience with them. Out of the package deal of 13 different kinds of zoa's, only 1 polyp looked okay and actually opened up very quickly once being placed in my frag tank. I pretty much knew the rest were goners when I opened up the shipping box. Some of the stalks were shriveled, some had tissue coming off of them, and some were covered in algae. Sad part is, I waited 3 weeks for them to heal :squigglemouth:. Needless to say, only 1 polyp out of the whole deal opened for me. What an expensive Polyp! :neutral: No more money ever being spent there again!

That sucks! But not sure how it disagree's with my statement (I have no problem being wrong, lol, just curious how "it was a steal!" contradicts "you get what you pay for" when things didn't go right.) Curious if you kept in touch with the vendor? I've bullied a few local reefers into contacting a mail order vendor when things weren't going right. They all said "well, I don't want to bug him, maybe it's my fault, maybe it'll heal up, etc." After enough bullying (read; politely yelling) they contacted the vendor, and in every instance the vendors made as many steps as they could to take care of things and the local guy was thrilled. I'm not trying to say all vendors are perfect or something silly like that- but it does surprise me how often people presume the vendors know exactly what's going on.

 

[Troylee]

That sucks! But not sure how it disagree's with my statement (I have no problem being wrong, lol, just curious how "it was a steal!" contradicts "you get what you pay for" when things didn't go right.) Curious if you kept in touch with the vendor? I've bullied a few local reefers into contacting a mail order vendor when things weren't going right. They all said "well, I don't want to bug him, maybe it's my fault, maybe it'll heal up, etc." After enough bullying (read; politely yelling) they contacted the vendor, and in every instance the vendors made as many steps as they could to take care of things and the local guy was thrilled. I'm not trying to say all vendors are perfect or something silly like that- but it does surprise me how often people presume the vendors know exactly what's going on.

agreed db... most vendors don't even know half of there clients recivev there corals much less the health unless there is a problem.... just from my couple sells on here i stress hard when shipping and i tell the buyer please!!! please tell me the moment you get them to lmk everything is a ok.... lol but there is alweays a few who never shoot you a pm and you just wander what happened... were they not happy??? did they die??? etc i hate that i would rather here i got them but this and this and this if your not happy then nothing.... how is someone suppose to fix a issue or problem if no one ever brings them up and just says oh well that's the last time i will order from them....

 

[Jcr's Reef]

Not really saying your wrong drainbamage as there is some truth to that statement. The whole part of "steal" is that most vendors work with everyone when inquiring about a larger order, especially if everything was marked retail, which it indeed was. I put the order together then they gave me a price I really couldn't pass up, especially the price per polyp I would've paid.

FWIW- I really don't want to say who it was and bash them, as it was my first and only experience with them. I see the vendor give pretty good deals from time to time on R2R and everyone else seems to have a great experience or relationship with them. My one and only experience though has left a sour taste in my mouth. I did message the vendor pretty much stating the health of them once they came in, then the following day stating none of them ever opened up except one (the one that usually melts on most people!). I recieved a very short response on how I should place them in my tank and they commented nothing about how they came in :squigglemouth: I just left it at that as I felt it was pointless, and above all, I don't want to be on a public board pointing fingers :angel:. Everyone else is pretty good at it ahahah... I'll just spend elsewhere
1st time- Shame on you........2nd time-Shame on me lol


Cuong- I'm pretty sure I know who you ordered from and for the price, its worth the risk. Might want to tuck it away out of direct light? Looks like its bleaching out. Dips usually brown my acro's out, unless they are really stressed they will turn white. Doesn't look like it has any receding, so thats a good thing

 

[Cuong L]

How'd it look before you dipped it?

Coral dip will do that to sps.....

Those photo's were pre-dip. I took it straight out of the bag and put it on my photo tray. I had to dip it, it came with an aptasia. I was able to cut that out but I wasn't sure if there were other pest.

 

[patent]

I just left it at that as I felt it was pointless, and above all, I don't want to be on a public board pointing fingers :angel:. Everyone else is pretty good at it ahahah... I'll just spend elsewhere
1st time- Shame on you........2nd time-Shame on me lol

I agree that you want to PM the seller first and try to work it out, but if you get shipped dead livestock and the vendor won't fix the issue, I think the world deserves to know about it. When people don't do that, the rest of us don't trust buying things online, you can't know who is a good vendor and who is bad if all bad feedback is deleted. I think it hurts to the business for those who are good vendors if you don't allow honest feedback. Not to mention which the vendor then gets a chance to defend his reputation publicly, which he can't do if its just word of mouth complaints.

Personally, if that happened to me it would show up in the feedback section, at a minimum. If that got deleted, it would show up elsewhere. Repeatedly.

 

[meisen]

Not sure about you- but I've often picked up 'bargain bin' corals that are not in great shape for the express reason that they're cheap, and I believe I can get them better. If you only want to purchase viable healthy pieces- don't buy those that are higher risk, right? I'm sorry, but there will always be a market for those who like the cheapest they can buy, and that's going to mean less-than ideal in terms of health, size, etc. Obviously really small frags are going to have a rougher time than larger pieces in most situations- but I'd rather pay for a small frag that I can afford than buy a big colony. That's my problem for choosing to go that way. I consider this exactly a "get what you pay for' arrangement. There's a vendor who sells at extremely good prices, but not all the pieces will come in viable- I've dealt with him several time, because the 70~80 percent of the pieces that survive are well worth the money spent IMO. But I go into it knowing that I'll lose some- that's just the way it is. If you don't want to take that risk, then obviously it would be a bad way to purchase.

Sure, everyone has brought the sick puppy home in hopes of a cure. But thats a completely different story than what I am gathering went on here..you know that coral is an RX bin case. Coral frags sold without caveat, cheap or expensive, should be healthy and viable, period. No one, sellers of cheap corals or sellers of expensive ones should be putting out frags have high mortality at this point in the game. The recipe is out there for sellers:

Step 1 acclimate/grow coral in your system until its healthy. This can be a week or a year, one of those things that is somewhat subjective but still feel its kind of obvious when a coral is settled properly). The species you are working with for determines some of this...do your research
Step 2 frag properly, using correct tools and making clean cuts. Wash instrumentation properly between individual animals. Use a disinfectant rinse (TMPCC my fav) to soak your frags post cut for 10'
Step 3 return frags and mother colony to original system, for the frags slightly lower flow and light will help allow them to recover faster. Can be from a few days to several weeks as needed. Goes back to #1 in that acclimated, healthy donor colony is going to produce much healthier frags than something that was on its way out before it got cut. I'm sorry but an experienced person will know this 100% that either the frags are going to be viable or they aren't.
Step 4 when frags still die for some reason, take care of your buyers in some way and work back through the steps on your own. Maybe the above experiences were flukes or bad luck but either way it should be made right.

And as others have noted above, IMO high price is often has little to do with quality made frags. Don't assume because someone has a website and an online shopping cart and free shipping that they know anything about the above (or care). Many sellers/vendors (and many I'd recommend on here) do however so seek them out.

 

[drainbamage]

Not really saying your wrong drainbamage as there is some truth to that statement. The whole part of "steal" is that most vendors work with everyone when inquiring about a larger order, especially if everything was marked retail, which it indeed was. I put the order together then they gave me a price I really couldn't pass up, especially the price per polyp I would've paid.

FWIW- I really don't want to say who it was and bash them, as it was my first and only experience with them. I see the vendor give pretty good deals from time to time on R2R and everyone else seems to have a great experience or relationship with them. My one and only experience though has left a sour taste in my mouth. I did message the vendor pretty much stating the health of them once they came in, then the following day stating none of them ever opened up except one (the one that usually melts on most people!). I recieved a very short response on how I should place them in my tank and they commented nothing about how they came in :squigglemouth: I just left it at that as I felt it was pointless, and above all, I don't want to be on a public board pointing fingers :angel:. Everyone else is pretty good at it ahahah... I'll just spend elsewhere
1st time- Shame on you........2nd time-Shame on me lol

Lol- I got ya- and sorry, I wasn't trying to say something mean or anything, I just read the posts and went "hey wait, it seems like they're agreeing with my statement while saying I'm wrong :tongue:" So yea- I totally know about the pack buys and the sweet price drops that come with it, and appreciate this was your situation most likely. That said- I do also know some of the vendors just don't care about follow up, and may very well be what you experienced. However, IME, limited though it is as I can't buy as often as i'd like :xd: I find the more typical is that the vendors are just busy. Often emails are seemingly ignored, and when I send a follow up I almost always get a "hey, sorry man, I checked it on my phone and forgot by the time I got back to the office." Some people may call that rude or not good-enough, I call it really similar to me- I get too much on my mind and try and do too many things at once, and things slip up sometimes. It sucks for those that I mess up on, it's not who I try and be as a person, but it's just life and I try and make up for it as best I can in other ways.
I've always had great success in following up politely with vendors, if they don't respond directly enough the first time, I'll follow up with a "yea man, but if it does continue to look bad, any suggestions? I really like it, would I need to just buy another one or something?" Again, I've yet to have a bad experience that way. Make it obvious what's going on and it gets solved pretty quick- make it too subtle (which is REALLY easy to do when trying to be polite) and it may be TOO subtle. Most reefers are male geeks and nerds- we're not known for being good with subtle conotations of conversation, especially online, lol.

Just my .02 -not trying to say anyone's right or wrong, cheers.

 

[drainbamage]

Sure, everyone has brought the sick puppy home in hopes of a cure. But thats a completely different story than what I am gathering went on here..you know that coral is an RX bin case. Coral frags sold without caveat, cheap or expensive, should be healthy and viable, period. No one, sellers of cheap corals or sellers of expensive ones should be putting out frags have high mortality at this point in the game. The recipe is out there for sellers:

Step 1 acclimate/grow coral in your system until its healthy. This can be a week or a year, one of those things that is somewhat subjective but still feel its kind of obvious when a coral is settled properly). The species you are working with for determines some of this...do your research
Step 2 frag properly, using correct tools and making clean cuts. Wash instrumentation properly between individual animals. Use a disinfectant rinse (TMPCC my fav) to soak your frags post cut for 10'
Step 3 return frags and mother colony to original system, for the frags slightly lower flow and light will help allow them to recover faster. Can be from a few days to several weeks as needed. Goes back to #1 in that acclimated, healthy donor colony is going to produce much healthier frags than something that was on its way out before it got cut. I'm sorry but an experienced person will know this 100% that either the frags are going to be viable or they aren't.
Step 4 when frags still die for some reason, take care of your buyers in some way and work back through the steps on your own. Maybe the above experiences were flukes or bad luck but either way it should be made right.

And as others have noted above, IMO high price is often has little to do with quality made frags. Don't assume because someone has a website and an online shopping cart and free shipping that they know anything about the above (or care). Many sellers/vendors (and many I'd recommend on here) do however so seek them out.

I agree with your post- these are all methods that are best for ensuring the health of the coral- but not all sellers do or should sell that way. It's a free-market, some people will buy things that are carefully cultivated like that- some people will pay less for something that's a risk. I don't see how it's 'just' or 'fair' to presume a way of doing business for one person should be applicable to all. Again- I agree that you're stating the best way to do things, but I have to disagree that that's the only way.

 

[Cuong L]

Most reefers are male geeks and nerds- we're not known for being good with subtle conotations of conversation, especially online, lol.

:ah::snicker:



I ordered alot of corals online from many vendors. In the biginning, I did not know what I was doing, I bought alot of corals that were dying and I bought alot of corals that just wasn't what I ordered. Yellow eyes turning green, orange eyes turning out to be yellow, etc. For this perticular order, I knew what was offered and what to expect. I paid $1 for a $8 coral (example). The shipping fees sucks, but it was a piece I wanted and it was worth the risk for me.

I was hoping this thread could save some beginning hobbiest some money through my experience. Do some research on the vendor feedback. Try to avoid buying corals that are overphotoshopped or shot with led unless you have led lighting or know what your getting into. Good luck and enjoy the hobby.

 

[fsu1dolfan]

I just wanted to add my 2cents here - Cuong L please dont take this personal since there are many people here that do not follow what i am about to say...

I have a bone to pick with people that feel PM/Email is the way to rectify an issue with a vendor. Many times things get lost in translation and tone is not expressed properly. I recently had an order from these vendor and everything was perfect...my friend had an order at the same time and he was having a problem with one of the blasto frags. He called them up and explained the issue...the vendor basically said to monitor the frag and worse comes to worse, he would be credited for it.

Done no problems...one phone call...everything explained and both sides felt good...Sorry i just hate how impersonal everyone is lately...especially with a problem that would need a little more explanation that a PM could give.

Ok im done with my rant! sorry

Luckily for my friend the frag rebounded!

 

[WesF]

Yes but email/pm provides documentation. If someone says "I don't remember telling you I would replace it" after it dies days later you have it in black and white.

It happens alot at work. You get the people who say "I never said that.". After getting burned by that a few times I document everything with email and save it in the CYA folder.

 

[fsu1dolfan]

Yes but email/pm provides documentation. If someone says "I don't remember telling you I would replace it" after it dies days later you have it in black and white.

This is true but then you can follow up with a confirming email. People are generally nicer on the phone (both vendor and reefer) which is why i feel a resolution is quicker reached.