Zero Nitrate & Phosphate readings, what now?

[CallMeLloyd]

Hello fellow reefers, my tank has been up and running for about a year & a half and I have been battling Algae and 0.0 readings for Nitrate & Phosphate. I do weekly water changes of 10g, I have a 55g breeder. In my tank I have 2 clownfish, 2 blue chromas, six-line wrasse, coral beauty, pink anthia. I feed once a day about an hour before lights out. I also have some corals (softs & LPS which I have reef roids but don't feed on a schedule. My filtration consists of a fluval 307 canister filter and a hob filter with biomedia, filter pads and sponges. For the clean up crew/inverts I have about 10 Trochus snails (added this week), 5 bubble bee snails, fighting conch, sally light foot, 3-4 baby crabs (added this week). Based on this info what do you think I should do? Feed more? Add a refugium? Only do weekly 5g WC's? Do some bigger WC's?

*I have attached a photo of the algae I pulled out about a week ago, I honestly let it build up. My tank currently has algae but not as much.*
Thanks

 

[tdyrkacz]

Had a similar scenario. I removed greens and reds from my lights which help grow algae. Added better cuc, improved flow and started dosing neophos and neonitro. I still have bubble algae but gha, cyanocobalamin, Dino are gone. Corals have colored up and are growing. I keep nitrates around 10ppm and try to keep my phosphate at 0.03ppm

 

[Salty_Northerner]

Yup I'm in the up and down swing myself. Getting rid of dinos and diatoms a PITA and have greeted a few small tuffs of GHA. nutrients were bottomed out for a few months and it was a daily battle holding any nutrients. Dosed ESV calcium nitrate and Neophos fixed that up. You can try and stir up a small area of the sand bed and check for phosphate an hour later and see if you get any readings. You should get something detectable and if so, then its bound to the substrate.

Id also stop doing WC and see how the levels go.

 

[tdyrkacz]

Yes definately stir up the sand every so often

 

[CallMeLloyd]

Okay, I'll take a break from water changes. Honestly it's been awhile since I've syphoned my sand bed. And my algae got really bad due to a wave maker going out & me not noticing it until algae was everywhere. Should I syphon it or just slowly stir it up?

 

[PeterEde]

feed more

 

[tdyrkacz]

Siphon would be better but if you have good flow, good skimmer and filter socks you could just stir it up.

 

[CallMeLloyd]

Yeah I might start feeding in the morning and before lights out. I'll have to change my lighting schedule to feed in the morning because light are off when I leave for work. Do not have a skimmer. Also if I feed more and syphon sand bed if it causes my levels to go up won't that cause the algae to grow even more?

 

[Pistondog]

Hello fellow reefers, my tank has been up and running for about a year & a half and I have been battling Algae and 0.0 readings for Nitrate & Phosphate. I do weekly water changes of 10g, I have a 55g breeder. In my tank I have 2 clownfish, 2 blue chromas, six-line wrasse, coral beauty, pink anthia. I feed once a day about an hour before lights out. I also have some corals (softs & LPS which I have reef roids but don't feed on a schedule. My filtration consists of a fluval 307 canister filter and a hob filter with biomedia, filter pads and sponges. For the clean up crew/inverts I have about 10 Trochus snails (added this week), 5 bubble bee snails, fighting conch, sally light foot, 3-4 baby crabs (added this week). Based on this info what do you think I should do? Feed more? Add a refugium? Only do weekly 5g WC's? Do some bigger WC's?

*I have attached a photo of the algae I pulled out about a week ago, I honestly let it build up. My tank currently has algae but not as much.*
Thanks

Move to 5 Gallons weekly changes and feeding reefroids 2x per week should raise phosphate.

 

[CallMeLloyd]

Move to 5 Gallons weekly changes and feeding reefroids 2x per week should raise phosphate.

Target feed corals or broadcast feed tank?

 

[Pistondog]

I target feed, but gets distributed when pumps come back on.

 

[blecki]

The CUC will help. So would a grazing fish, but 55g is too small for the really good algae eaters. A refugium would also be good. Algae isn't bad - growing it in a refugium will keep it out of the display.

 

[CallMeLloyd]

The CUC will help. So would a grazing fish, but 55g is too small for the really good algae eaters. A refugium would also be good. Algae isn't bad - growing it in a refugium will keep it out of the display.

HOB Refugium and a ATO is on my list for next upgrades. Had to talk the wife into a 55g from a 20g when I first started reefing I will eventually upgrade to a 75g, hopefully.

 

[CallMeLloyd]

I also have a bottle of Red Sea AB+ should I start adding that daily? Maybe on the days I don't use reef roids?

 

[tdyrkacz]

You should post a picture of your tank. Reef roids and or AB+ is fine to add... though not strictly necessary. Especially is you can maintain phosphates and nitrates with other means.

 

[trevorhiller]

I'm quite confused by some of the advice in this thread. I'm not sure why we are suggesting feeding more, dosing reef roids, decreasing water changes, etc. Are your fish or corals looking starved? Otherwise I'd say that advice is "chasing numbers" as we like to say so often in this hobby. Raising nitrate and phosphate for the purpose of raising nitrate and phosphate is, I think we can agree, the definition of chasing number (bad!).

I personally don't assign a lot of value to nitrate/phosphate test results in the setting of prolific algae.

First, I do think it would be helpful to see a photo of your tank with the white lights on so we can see how the algae is.

Second, I think your nitrates and phosphates being low are a result of all that algae you are growing. If we assume the goal is a tank in balance without algae growing everywhere, then input = output. Currently you have an input > output situation. Where, input is your feeding of organics (food) and output is testable nitrates/phosphates in the water, organics used by corals, organics used by algae or organics bound up in filter media. Remember, when organics bound up in filter media are not physically removed from the tank they become organics bound up in the water or algae. Think of your tank in terms of what goes in, must come out. A simple balanced algebraic equation if you will.

Your display tank's algae growth is currently serving as your main organic "export mechanism" with your HOB filter media secondary. I imagine if you retested now that you pulled all of that algae out, the levels are probably higher.

I'd aim to more frequently change the filter media, begin siphoning the sand bed with your water changes and add more herbivores. In a tank with a HOB filter and a canister filter as the only filtration, siphoning the sand bed is a must in my opinion as your filtration (and likely flow) is light. In the setting of light flow and filtration, the sandbed is going to accumulate a lot of organics.

As for CUC recommendations, I really like pincushion urchins, I'd consider adding a few plus some trochus snails since they readily reproduce in the tank and will grow their population to available food. My 60 gallon tank for example has over 70 snails, several hermits, 3 urchins and 2-3 crabs as well as a Tomini tang. It sounds like your CUC is a little light (IMO).

I realize that 0 nitrates and 0 phosphates initially may lead you to think your tank is "starving" but that is just not how this works when algae is growing. I do hope that makes sense for you and wish you luck!

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

A simple balanced algaebraic equation if you will.

Fixed it

 

[tdyrkacz]

I realize that 0 nitrates and 0 phosphates initially may lead you to think your tank is "starving" but that is just not how this works when algae is growing. I do hope that makes sense for you and wish you luck!

This statement makes sense which is why i lived with bottomed out phosphates and nitrates for 2 years with my corals not doing well and eventually dying. GHA, Cyano and Dinos were growing everywhere.

Once i raised my nitrates and phosphates I almost immediately saw a my coral health bounce back and over the course of 1 month most of the algae disappear.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Otherwise I'd say that advice is "chasing numbers" as we like to say so often in this hobby. Raising nitrate and phosphate for the purpose of raising nitrate and phosphate is, I think we can agree, the definition of chasing number (bad!).

Exactly, except chasing numbers per se is not ever bad (IMO). What's bad is if you chase them with inappropriate target ranges or by using inappropriate methods. That's when that problems arise.

You likely chase other numbers (such as alk or salinity), but just think this one is not important. Others disagree.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

This statement makes sense which is why i lived with bottomed out phosphates and nitrates for 2 years with my corals not doing well and eventually dying. GHA, Cyano and Dinos were growing everywhere.

Once i raised my nitrates and phosphates I almost immediately saw a my coral health bounce back and over the course of 1 month most of the algae disappear.

It may or may not make sense, but one should not assume that enough algae cannot outcompete any particular corals, anemones, clams, or other organisms that you want to keep. .

Detectable levels (say, above 2 ppm nitrate and 0.02 ppm phosphate) generally means there is enough. Undetectable leaves you not knowing for sure (IMO).