Zoa's Shrinking Away, Help...

[A. grandis]

If there was any damage done via the lighting, removing the LEDs for only 24 hours wouldn't likely result in any change.

Do they close up at night?

Yeah, and turning the LEDs back on would make it worse and worse...
If he wants to check if the light is the problem he needs to remove that light and substitute for a safer light source.
Let the polyps rest for like 48 hours an PROPERLY ADAPT the system to the new light.
Grandis.

 

[A. grandis]

I know you said
You do a quick dip before putting them in your system.. have you dipped them since they have been placed? Moved them around.. I'm sorry if you have mentioned this already., I have been following along but forgot if you have been asked this... if you have not dipped again.. I always do this.. I will put tank water in a bucket and pour revive and a whole dropper full of lugols iodine stir and let it sit for 15 mins.. I then place in just tank water for 15 mins and put in my tank.. you can do this for three or four days in a row if you want.. I think it's worth a try at this point.. and then I would put in a different spot in the tank.. just to try something else..

You shouldn't dip live rock, basically. Dipping is done with frags or loose colonies.
Besides, he doesn't know what is the problem and consequently what type of dipping should be done.
Best to do is to try light first and see what happens. Adding some amino acids and suggested vitamin C would be the next step IMO.
Grandis.

 

[A. grandis]

Have you checked for any metals in the water? Copper or rusted screw?
Is there any electrical problems, like electricity in the water because of a pump?
Any weird additives that you added? Please list your additives and food...
Medicine?
Chemicals from your hands, like lotion?

Grandis.

 

[CodyRVA]

Yeah, and turning the LEDs back on would make it worse and worse...
If he wants to check if the light is the problem he needs to remove that light and substitute for a safer light source.
Let the polyps rest for like 48 hours an PROPERLY ADAPT the system to the new light.
Grandis.

Possibly, this issue has been going on for some time now. When I upgraded my lighting, many of my palys and Zoas looked very similar for a while before eventually recovering. My guess was the acclimation process to the higher intensity was too fast, but who knows.

If they haven't died, melted, whatever... then whatever is irritating them isn't killing them. No proof it is the LEDs or an acclimation of intensity issue, but if it is... you'd be better off to let it as is and let them adapt.

Unless they're melting, I'd let it be. Less is more.

 

[treedog5]

To answer a few of the questions asked, no I have never dipped them and they are on large rocks which would make it hard to dip. I have moved them around a few times which didn't help. Once I get this T5 setup this weekend we can put to rest the lighting question, that should eliminate one part of the equation. I really hope it turns out to be the lights because I'm stumped with this one. And they really dont change at night when the lights go out, they are almost completely closed all the time.

 

[treedog5]

I don't add any additives to the tank and only feed Larrys reef frenzy or NewLife pellets. I always wash my hands and arms before reaching in the tank. I started out using the same light that was growing the zoas before I got them, so I can't figure out what I could be doing to make them decline. I'm trying all the ideas that everyone is posting but I'm doing 1 and slowly at a time.

 

[treedog5]

If I can't figure things out soon I will send a water sample to Triton and see what they find.

 

[Jonathan Presseau]

Good luck then.
Grandis.

Hi, sorry I may have missed this. Can you please explain what one should be looking for when you keep the LEDs off a few days? I have several colonies not opening fully for months and I am convinced it is the light, but I cannot pinpoint if it is too much LED intensity for too many hours a day, not enough intensity or something in the middle.

Thanks!

 

[A. grandis]

Hi, sorry I may have missed this. Can you please explain what one should be looking for when you keep the LEDs off a few days? I have several colonies not opening fully for months and I am convinced it is the light, but I cannot pinpoint if it is too much LED intensity for too many hours a day, not enough intensity or something in the middle.

Thanks!

Oh man...
LEDs' aren't like T5s. The quality of light, basically how the photons are emitted, is a totally a different concept.
Many people have LEDs with "great results" for a while just to see polyps melting and SPS growing weird no matter what...
As soon as they change for their old T5s the system begins to react positively, then they will know the LED is a problem. I've heard of many cases. Sometimes you can see amazing results in a week or so.
I myself had very similar things happening when I had my LEDs over a 125gal system.

My suggestion to remove the LEDs is just because by what we've tried through this thread there is nothing besides the light that could be the problem. If the LED light is really the problem the simple act of turning it off will give a great relief to the polyps instantly. If you think the light is doing it, why keep it on?!? Doesn't make any sense to me to keep hurting the polyps. They could be damaged/stressed by the light, but it simply won't go any further than that. If he puts that T5 light over them and they react positively we are 100% sure that those polyps couldn't take it anymore from LEDs! As I've said sometimes as early as a week period.
To turn off the lights for 48 hours will give the polyps a rest to adapt to the "new light". Don't be afraid to turn off the lights for 48 hours. The zoas won't die!!! When you turn on the T5s on the first day leave it only for 2 or 3 hours max. Then add an hour every day until you have your regular 8 to 10 long photoperiod. Go slow... If light is the problem they will come back to normal! Trust me on that!

Like I've said before you could try also amino acids and perhaps the Vitamin C.
Just keep in mind that if the problem is really the light source you won't really solve any problem there.

Grandis.

 

[A. grandis]

Possibly, this issue has been going on for some time now. When I upgraded my lighting, many of my palys and Zoas looked very similar for a while before eventually recovering. My guess was the acclimation process to the higher intensity was too fast, but who knows.

If they haven't died, melted, whatever... then whatever is irritating them isn't killing them. No proof it is the LEDs or an acclimation of intensity issue, but if it is... you'd be better off to let it as is and let them adapt.

Unless they're melting, I'd let it be. Less is more.

Well, we really don't have the proof that the LEDs are the problem. My suggestion is to try eliminate that from the equation.
The adaptation process I've said is to adapt from LEDs to the T5s, giving them some time to rest before the T5s.
Grandis.

 

[Jonathan Presseau]

If only T5 would fit Nano tanks.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

The big prob with led is. It has a dial. how do you know what you have without a meter. get a lux or par meter. T5 has greater Par at lower intensity. MH too. see the apogee site and D riddles work on led..
T5 mh also has a broader spectrum mostly chemically produced then a dyed coating is applied for final correction as a filter. Led rely on dyes for filters primarily and may not hit each spectrum correctly, its the difference in analog and digital signal in sound and light in photography kinda.
most with led use too much light and that's actually better. less par more intensity.
but check chemistry first, then flow. you can grow zoas with a cheap low par light bulb at 48k. ot 2 $3 twist compacts like the ones in my sump crowning coral right now.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

If only T5 would fit Nano tanks.

they do. keep looking. also look a power compacts. 18 w I believe is what I had on my 5g pico and some cheap stunners from ebay.
get the corallife brand

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

oh fwiw from some of the zoa guys here, the lower light zoas seem ok in 50 to 100 par and the higher light ones in the 200 par range. how you get there doesn't seem to matter, as they use all three types of light.

 

[A. grandis]

If only T5 would fit Nano tanks.

Yep:

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/produ...-3HTW9ncI5uPH3tCSv3x54bbcbok4YyvvuhoCy2vw_wcB

Grandis.

 

[Jonathan Presseau]

oh fwiw from some of the zoa guys here, the lower light zoas seem ok in 50 to 100 par and the higher light ones in the 200 par range. how you get there doesn't seem to matter, as they use all three types of light.

I do have a Lux meter, but not par. I have been trying to find the sweet spot for each species. Problem is when you mix 40 different morphs from all over the world into a 10 gallon box of water it is really hard to make them all happy!

Do you have any lux numbers to recommend?

Thanks!

FYI for some reason I cannot delete the pic I attached. That is actually the frag tank plumbed to my main system. The 3 gallon frag tank seems to be doing just fine under the LED. The display, which I meant to attached, only about 60% happy.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

Yep:

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/produ...-3HTW9ncI5uPH3tCSv3x54bbcbok4YyvvuhoCy2vw_wcB

Grandis.

Nice!


How quickly we forget the old ways. How slowly we learn the new ones.

I had a rock with polyps all over the thing. two different tanks. would not open would not die. it was with the rest of my zoas too, higher even. I put it in a JBJ cube with pounding awful awful awful spectrum(jbj:mad but it was intense and they finally opened.
That was the light bulb moment, get a meter. and yes, the $14 red lux meter works. AND SPS and zoas all have different light requirements. the lower light ones will take the higer light so far IME, unless theres not enough no and Po.(alk)

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

I do have a Lux meter, but not par. I have been trying to find the sweet spot for each species. Problem is when you mix 40 different morphs from all over the world into a 10 gallon box of water it is really hard to make them all happy!

Do you have any lux numbers to recommend?

Thanks!

FYI for some reason I cannot delete the pic I attached. That is actually the frag tank plumbed to my main system. The 3 gallon frag tank seems to be doing just fine under the LED. The display, which I meant to attached, only about 60% happy.

sorry thatll never ever work. youll have to send me those to test.


I run my conversion like this.
Divide the lux reading for at 50 (sun) then run it at 60(led from my experience). its a pretty good estimate. its likeley much closer to 60 and as they seem to take a huge range of light the lower light ones should acclimate.
But with 1.5 kajillion zoas out there its hard to say what each one likes but there should be a range.

fwiw t5 and mh run in the 35 to 50 conversion range depending on the bulbs. that's apogee an Riddles numbers.

 

[goatcorals]

Tree dog,

What are your tank dimensions, how high is your light above the water, what intensity are you running, what is placement of zoas in the tank, flow in the tank?

Hoping someone else is having success with your setup modified slightly and can suggest specifically.

 

[A. grandis]

Yeah, some LED people around! Finally!! LOL!
Hope they will find the solution...
Good luck!!

Grandis.